# Ball in a divot hole



## Big Hobbit (Nov 2, 2010)

A rule that currently hurts, i.e. play it as it lies. I dare say many of us have hit that perfect drive only to find the ball in a divot hole. And then we dig a bigger hole getting it out, with little control on the ball too. How unfair is that? 

I wish the powers that be would listen to players from all walks of the game who've cried in the beer for a change that would see them picking and dropping away from the divot hole. It would have to be a drop as you wouldn't want players placing in the rough.

A fairer result on the shot played, and also of benefit to the course.

What do you think?


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## stevel1017 (Apr 30, 2007)

I have thought the same, but some have pointed out that then you would have problems differentiating between a divot and a normal depression in the ground. And one of the basic premises of golf is play it as it lies


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## FrogsHair (Mar 4, 2010)

I agree with you. Hitting out of a divot is a penalty a golfer dose not earn on his/her own. If you have to hit out of divot, you need to remember you had help from the moron who left the divot, unrepaired in the first place. Very few folks fix their divots, and lot those folks who don't are walkers from what I have seen. How many walkers with/without a pull cart have you seen not carrying a bottle of filler? How many walkers have you seen walk forward, pick up the grass chunk, and return it to it's previous resting place? At least most golf carts I have sen have one, or two bottles of filler on them. 

Now here is what I do, and it definitely in the very back of the grey area on rules. (it would never work in a sanctioned tournament) Some folks won't agree with it, but to each his own. I put the responsibility on the people taking my money to play on their golf course. I simply ask the counter guy, who can be considered the "committee" if unrepaired divots can be considered ground under repair. Since most golf courses do send workers around to repair these left over divots, it's not to unreasonable to consider them being in between repairs. Most of these counter persons could care less and tell you to go a head and treat them as such. Another option that is permissible, and I even asked the USGA about this one, is a divot with water/ice in it, being treated as casual water. their reply said yes.

The problem I have with changing the rule is this. If you change the rule to accommodate those of us who do in fact fix/replace our divots, but hate playing out of others' left over damage, leaving more divots will be the result. If the rules say I don't have to play out them, then why fix them? Plus if I am in the rough, and in a divot to boot, why make the penalty for being in the rough easier? I am not suppose to be in the rough as it is. 

I suppose in the end, when we find our ball in a divot, all we can really do is aim left, grip down on a long iron, and hope for the best. :dunno:


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## Surtees (Sep 11, 2007)

over here its is a rule that all players have to carry sand buckets with them to fill in the divots. It doesnt mean that all the divots are filled but its a start I guess. Just a question how oftyen do you actually land in a divot? I cant remember the last time I did???


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## Fourputt (Nov 18, 2006)

Big Hobbit said:


> A rule that currently hurts, i.e. play it as it lies. I dare say many of us have hit that perfect drive only to find the ball in a divot hole. And then we dig a bigger hole getting it out, with little control on the ball too. How unfair is that?
> 
> I wish the powers that be would listen to players from all walks of the game who've cried in the beer for a change that would see them picking and dropping away from the divot hole. It would have to be a drop as you wouldn't want players placing in the rough.
> 
> ...


Tell me how to write that rule. When is a divot healed enough to no longer deserve relief? How do you know that the half healed divot is really a divot and not just a natural blemish? The whole idea is unmanageable, undefinable, and unlikely to be changed. For one thing, it only happens very rarely. Most of us don't hit a high percentage of fairways, and when we do, the odds of ending up in a divot are very slim. And with a little bit of care, it really isn't that hard out hit out of a normal divot. 

If you play a typical course which makes a reasonable job of repairing divots, and encouraging players to repair their own, then at worst you may be playing from a sand filled one most of the time. I just treat it like a fairway bunker. If I have to play from one that hasn't been fixed, then I just focus on staying down on the ball. Either way, I have about as much chance of hitting a clinker from a divot as I do from a perfect lie. 

I play most of my golf at a very busy public course, yet I don't see such a lie more than about once a season, on average. I feel that the discussion and complaints come up far more often that they are really warranted. :dunno:


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## Big Hobbit (Nov 2, 2010)

Fourputt said:


> Tell me how to write that rule. When is a divot healed enough to no longer deserve relief? How do you know that the half healed divot is really a divot and not just a natural blemish? The whole idea is unmanageable, undefinable, and unlikely to be changed. For one thing, it only happens very rarely. Most of us don't hit a high percentage of fairways, and when we do, the odds of ending up in a divot are very slim. And with a little bit of care, it really isn't that hard out hit out of a normal divot.
> 
> If you play a typical course which makes a reasonable job of repairing divots, and encouraging players to repair their own, then at worst you may be playing from a sand filled one most of the time. I just treat it like a fairway bunker. If I have to play from one that hasn't been fixed, then I just focus on staying down on the ball. Either way, I have about as much chance of hitting a clinker from a divot as I do from a perfect lie.
> 
> I play most of my golf at a very busy public course, yet I don't see such a lie more than about once a season, on average. I feel that the discussion and complaints come up far more often that they are really warranted. :dunno:


I would define it as when soil can still be seen, i.e. the ball has come to rest on soil rather than grass. Once the grass has grown I'd define it as a depression as you could no longer tell if it was a divot or a natural depression. The ability of the average golfer to hit a fairway, or the ability to recover from a divot hole shouldn't have any bearing on whether a rule is created. The same goes for the vageries of whether once course's maintanance programme, or 'quality' of members and whether they repair their divot holes.

The issue is the unfairness of ending up in a divot hole, and the size of the hole(damage to the course) after playing out of a divot hole.


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## Fourputt (Nov 18, 2006)

Big Hobbit said:


> I would define it as when soil can still be seen, i.e. the ball has come to rest on soil rather than grass. Once the grass has grown I'd define it as a depression as you could no longer tell if it was a divot or a natural depression. The ability of the average golfer to hit a fairway, or the ability to recover from a divot hole shouldn't have any bearing on whether a rule is created. The same goes for the vageries of whether once course's maintanance programme, or 'quality' of members and whether they repair their divot holes.
> 
> The issue is the unfairness of ending up in a divot hole, and the size of the hole(damage to the course) after playing out of a divot hole.


The divot should be smaller after you play from it, because as a good golfer you would naturally repair the damage you caused. 

There is one more argument which I should have mentioned before because it is most likely the real reason why it is unlikely to ever be changed. The rules do not recognize or define any part of the course as "fairway". They would have to allow relief through the green (which includes what we call rough) or nowhere. They choose nowhere. This has been debated for nearly 100 years, and no change has ever been made. I wouldn't hold my breath at this time.


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## Big Hobbit (Nov 2, 2010)

Fourputt said:


> The divot should be smaller after you play from it, because as a good golfer you would naturally repair the damage you caused.
> 
> There is one more argument which I should have mentioned before because it is most likely the real reason why it is unlikely to ever be changed. The rules do not recognize or define any part of the course as "fairway". They would have to allow relief through the green (which includes what we call rough) or nowhere. They choose nowhere. This has been debated for nearly 100 years, and no change has ever been made. I wouldn't hold my breath at this time.


I'm certainly not holding my breath over it. My first post actually said "take a drop" because of the possibility of being in a divot hole in the rough - there is no such thing as "fairway," its a closely mown area from what I can remember.

Whether or not the divot hole would be smaller after repair ...:dunno: links divots quite often just explode into smalls bit and quite often even a diligent golfer will leave a bit of a hole after a repair.

Here's one for you. If a golfer doesn't repair a divot hole can you take relief due to the actions, or lack of, of an "outside agency?"


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## Fourputt (Nov 18, 2006)

Big Hobbit said:


> I'm certainly not holding my breath over it. My first post actually said "take a drop" because of the possibility of being in a divot hole in the rough - there is no such thing as "fairway," its a closely mown area from what I can remember.


There is only one place in the rules where they attempt to differentiate closely mowed areas from rough, and that is Rule 25-2 Embedded Ball. This is perhaps the only rule of golf which I have an issue with because I see it as an inconsistency in relation to the rest of the rule book. I don't see any reason for making a special condition for this one case. In my opinion, the embedded ball rule should always apply _through the green_, as it is most often applied by enabling the local rule which allows it (even the PGA Tour has this local rule in effect for all of its competitions, as does my Men's Club). 

If there is a rule that I feel is ripe for change, it's this one. Divots are viewed by the rules an integral part of any golf course, and as such, no relief is warranted. Areas on the course outside of hazards which are so soft or wet as to allow a ball to embed are not so viewed, thus all such cases _through the green_ should be given relief without the necessity of a local rule.



Big Hobbit said:


> Here's one for you. If a golfer doesn't repair a divot hole can you take relief due to the actions, or lack of, of an "outside agency?"


Not unless that action changes your lie, stance or area of intended swing after your ball has come to rest. You are entitled to the lie your stroke gave you.


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## Big Hobbit (Nov 2, 2010)

I know its semantics at the end of the day, and just who can split the hair the finest but...

If divots are an integral part of the course/golf why isn't an embedded ball viewed the same. I dare say you have played sodden courses as I have and an embedded ball, even a lost ball because of, it is very frustrating. But as the ball lies, whether embadded or in a divot hole just what's the difference.

I love rules discussions. You get the subjective, and then if you've got a copy, the decisions.


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## broken tee (Jan 13, 2008)

Big Hobbit said:


> I know its semantics at the end of the day, and just who can split the hair the finest but...
> 
> If divots are an integral part of the course/golf why isn't an embedded ball viewed the same. I dare say you have played sodden courses as I have and an embedded ball, even a lost ball because of, it is very frustrating. But as the ball lies, whether embadded or in a divot hole just what's the difference.
> 
> I love rules discussions. You get the subjective, and then if you've got a copy, the decisions.



I posted a responce to this thread on rule of the week...I know I'll say it, I'm from another state.


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## Big Hobbit (Nov 2, 2010)

broken tee said:


> I posted a responce to this thread on rule of the week...I know I'll say it, I'm from another state.


You think you've got problems Bob. I started the discussion but yesterday I went looking for it in "Rules..."


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## JamesS (Apr 15, 2011)

I can understand the whys of the divot rule but it is annoying.

I hate the rule most when you hit a really good tee shot, think cor that was good. Feel elated walking all the way up to the ball and then find yourself in some idiot's divot.


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## Tim (Jan 8, 2011)

Im not good enough yet to worry about tournaments or..............rules . So I just cheat and move the ball.  Its more fun that way.


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## FrogsHair (Mar 4, 2010)

Everyone is good enough to have fun playing this game. What ever works for the individual. :thumbsup:


Tim said:


> Im not good enough yet to worry about tournaments or..............rules . So I just cheat and move the ball.  Its more fun that way.


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