# Slow Play....



## ActionJackson (Oct 22, 2007)

How big of a problem is it for the game? Have you experienced it? How can we as golfers fix the issue "if" there is one?

-Adam J.


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## Golfbum (Oct 14, 2006)

SLOW PLAY  You can beat on this issue with a 9 iron all you want and not do a damn bit of good. You and only you and your playing partners can control this issue. 
If everyone played "READY GOLF" slow play would not be a big issue. Go to your ball and be ready to hit your shot when it is your turn. Be ready to putt when it is your turn. Don't wait until it is your putt to start walking around lining it up. Survey the green while others are doing it and be ready to go when it is your turn.

Do carts speed up play? Maybe, if no one is ahead of you and you are decent players. Otherwise IMO, no they do not speed up play. Far too many times you see two guys in a cart going back and forth to their balls. Waste of time.

Another issue that causes slow play. People playing the wrong tee blocks. Let's face reality here folks, if you are not a single digit then do not step up on the TIPS. Simply because you paid to play the course does require you to play from the back tees. Play the tees that you are capable of playing with your handicap. Besides, how much fun can it be when you are hitting 3-5 woods into Par 4's for your second shots? :dunno: 

That said, slow play is not a big issue at the course I work at and will play 99% of my rounds on next year. It is a private course, members respect each other and try to move along as quickly as possible. It all comes down to RESPECT. These days there does not seem to be much respect from some people for other people on the course. :thumbsdown:


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## Fourputt (Nov 18, 2006)

Slow play is a problem, and I too don't see any real solution other than doing what I can to educate the casual golfer I play with. If my group is having a problem keeping up, and I see any obvious issues with anyone's play, I will try to find a tactful way to broach the subject. I don't want to incite a fistfight, but in my experience, most players are quite receptive to reasonable suggestions. Other than that, find a course to play at where the rangers actually do the best that they can to keep things moving. My home course rarely has a significant gap between groups, but there are days when the afternoon rounds drag out to 5 hours... all it takes is several foursomes lagging a shot or even a half a shot behind the group ahead, and it adds up fast. Yet there isn't any real culprit for the ranger to identify and focus on. 

I work as a starter, and we send groups out at 9 minute intervals. That is plenty of time for a foursome to play their 2nd shots and clear the fairway... the guys I play with generally have played their approaches to the green on the first hole in 5 or 6 minutes from the 1st player hitting his tee shot. The problem is that it only takes one player in a group getting into the weeds... and taking even 2 or 3 minutes to search before abandoning the ball as lost and playing his provisional (or as so many do, dropping a second ball :dunno: ). If that happens on a couple of holes, the group is already playing catchup... and that's only if they acknowledge the fact that they are behind. Or if there is a ranger to inform them of the fact. 

As starter I record the turn times for every foursome that comes through from the 9th green. They pass right in front of my booth, and I know when they started. If a group is too far out of position, I send someone from the golf shop out to inform them, and I call the ranger on the radio to let him know of the problem. He will hang in their area as encouragement until they close the gap, and counsel them further if need be. :thumbsup: I know that a lot of guys say that the rangers on their courses don't do their jobs, and I can't speak for them, but the places where I play regularly, all have pace of play policies, and all enforce them as far as reason will allow, but aside from an extreme case, you simply can't just evict a foursome from the course... not a public muni like I work at. 

The players just have to accept that during prime time in the high season that the course is going to be crowded, and that means 4 hour rounds will be a rarity. On our 2 9 hole short courses and one 18 hole par 72 course, our facility has recorded 140,000 paid rounds in a single season... and even when we can play in winter, the tee time window is very short between frost off and sundown. Most of that play happens in a 7-8 month period. 

So if you play a course which does everything that is politically feasible to maintain pace of play, and the course is still slow, then you pretty much just have to accept it. That means that patience is definitely a virtue on todays golf courses. :dunno:


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## 300Yards (Jan 23, 2007)

It's a problem occasionally.. but it's just something you have to deal with. Nothing you can really so about it.. What I usually do is either chip balls to the front tees, or take that extra few minutes to think about what I need to do on my next couple shots.. Sometimes I call a friend too, that always passes the time.


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## Surtees (Sep 11, 2007)

Where i live in aus you can have a round all year round. i know that when the group that i play with first stated playing we were a bit slow but if we had a group catch up to us we'd let them play through which it seems most of the people on my local course do and it seems to work well, because now we're the ones that are catching the newer players. Which actully makes us feel good because it show us how much we have improved.


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## ActionJackson (Oct 22, 2007)

Surtees said:


> Where i live in aus you can have a round all year round. i know that when the group that i play with first stated playing we were a bit slow but if we had a group catch up to us we'd let them play through which it seems most of the people on my local course do and it seems to work well, because now we're the ones that are catching the newer players. Which actully makes us feel good because it show us how much we have improved.


Good point Surtees and it's actually the one I planned to bring up next in this thread, which is "the reasons" for slow play, is it lack of etiquette/respect or perhaps lack of ability. It's a no brainer that it takes longer to shoot a 95-110 than it does a 62-72 score. If lack of ability is the reason, is this excusable....to a degree I think it is and I definitely afford more patience to this type of player than the former.


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## Golfbum (Oct 14, 2006)

ActionJackson said:


> Good point Surtees and it's actually the one I planned to bring up next in this thread, which is "the reasons" for slow play, is it lack of etiquette/respect or perhaps lack of ability. It's a no brainer that it takes longer to shoot a 95-110 than it does a 62-72 score. If lack of ability is the reason, is this excusable....to a degree I think it is and I definitely afford more patience to this type of player than the former.



You are wrong when you say it takes longer to shoot 95 than it does to shot in the low 70's. I play with a guy who shoots 95 on a Par 70 course. My buddy and I can shoot 73-75 and the guy shooting 95 is no slower than us. He hits his drives and shots and doesn't dink around.

Lack of etiquette from new golfers is part of the problem. Then you have the experienced shooters who think they are on tour. Lining up putts from 10 different angles, taking far too long to hit a shot from the fairway. I have watched clowns lay down on greens to read putts (Long before The Spider Man hit the tour) and then stand up and 4 putt from 8 feet.  

4 hours for a round, no more than that. I have played with 3 guys at the course I work at. 6700 yards and we go around in less than 4 hours. 

It's all about attitude. What it boils down to is this, and I know after playing the game for 25 years. Some people think it is their god given right to take forever to play a round of golf. They feel they paid big bucks and they are going to damn well take their time. Hey I could care less if you take 5 hours buddy, but let my group go through. 

Stop watching the Pro take so long to play a round. They are playing for millions of dollars, we are not.

Slow play starts with YOU. Make sure you are not part of the problem yourself.


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## ActionJackson (Oct 22, 2007)

Generally speaking I would say that I am not incorrect when stating that it chronologically takes longer to hit more shots than fewer shots, I am not saying that every high handicapper takes longer to play a round than the average mid or low handicapper, but generally this is true. Your example is not representative of the entire golfing community and is simply an anecdotal experience. It is true that etiquette plays a huge role, there is no denying that....the question I am posing is how large a role it plays and what we can do to encourage people with a POSITIVE attitude, speaking of positive attitude you will have a PM sent to you shortly.

-AJ


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## Gibby (Sep 9, 2007)

I think I will be a very slow player. Could people not just go to the next hole and play the hole they're waiting for at the end? Or is it too long of a walk?


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## ActionJackson (Oct 22, 2007)

Gibby said:


> I think I will be a very slow player. Could people not just go to the next hole and play the hole they're waiting for at the end? Or is it too long of a walk?


No it would be best for you to let them play through you, inconvenience yourself not them.


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## Golfbum (Oct 14, 2006)

There is no excuse for slow play other than the fact the slow player just doesn't give a crap about anyone else on the golf course. 

I have played this game for over 25 years, I think I might be a fair judge on slow players. In that span of time I have played with people who can't break 80-90-100-110. They all played a round of golf within the 4 hour limit. Why? Simple, they do not mess around between shots. They hit, walk up the edges of the fairways to get to their balls and they are ready to hit again.

That is not a hard concept to learn or follow. Only an ignorant golfer, who as I said does not care about anyone else but themselves will not follow that simple concept.

People who refuse to wave a group through if they are slow.......RUDE.

Studs who stand in the rough, 280 yards from a Par 5 green thinking they can hit the green from there. STUPID & RUDE. I laugh at men who just corked a drive a grand total of 220-230 off the tee on a 500+ Par 5 then stand there until the green clears to hit their second shot  Do they actually think they can get home in two from there? Come on, they just hit a driver, off a tee and hit the ball 2230. There isn't a snowballs chance in hell that they'll reach that green in two. Yet they slow down everyone playing behind them.

As I said, only golfers can control slow play. Even if you shoot 100 you should still be able to get around the course in 4 hours or less. We have gone around 18 holes in 3 hours with 3 players, and again that included the guy who shoots in the mid 90's. If there is no one ahead of us we just play golf. Leave the socializing to the patio after the round. It is OK to walk and talk, but to stop and talk is just not right.

If you have to look for a ball, look for no more than 3 minutes. Yes I know the rules state you are allowed 5 minutes. But face reality, your ball is in 4 inch rough. You do not have a clue where it might be other than a rough guess from the tee. Chances are if you have not located that ball within 3 minutes you will not find it in 5 either. Unless you are in a tournament where you would have to go back to the spot you hit the last shot from, DON'T. Drop, count 2 strokes and play on. You are not a PRO. Just play on and get moving.

Line putts up while others putt, being respectful and not getting in their line of site. Be ready to putt when it is your turn. Continue to putt until you are in the hole, unless you are going to step on someones line.

Hit your tee shot and be ready to start walking as soon as the last tee ball has been struck. Walk to your ball, not your buddies, then to yours. Be ready to hit your shot when it is your turn. This means having the club in your hands and knowing what shot you want to hit. If you need a practice swing, make it while the other players are hitting their shots, if you are not in their line of site. Stand up to your ball and hit it. Again, you are not a PRO playing for millions.

People might find out they can actually score better if they play quicker. I know I do.

PLAY GOLF. It is that simple.


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## ActionJackson (Oct 22, 2007)

I agree with a lot of your words but your ideas would be a lot more attractive if they weren't said with such an agitated and negative tone, that PM obviously fell on deaf ears.


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## Surtees (Sep 11, 2007)

with slow play i think it shouldnt happen but we have to face it that it does happen we just have to hope and try and teach slower players to wave faster players through. i hate to say this but most of the time 100+ hitter but my mates that i go out with are too and we still make it around in about 4hrs sometimes we catch some players and sometime we get caught and wave people through. We chat on the course but we do this as we all walk to our own balls and get ready to take our shots. We all play golf because we enjoy it, not to get upset about how others are playing because face it if you get upset normally your own game suffers and if i wasnt enjoying my time on the course there is no point being there. so i think education is the key not anger.


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## Fourputt (Nov 18, 2006)

Surtees said:


> with slow play i think it shouldnt happen but we have to face it that it does happen we just have to hope and try and teach slower players to wave faster players through.


The trouble is, on a busy course waving others through won't solve anything. There will simply be another group behind them and yet another behind that one. The real issue is course policy and the willingness to risk irritating patrons by "harassing" them. On my home course, except in extreme cases, the rangers are only allowed to go so far, because it is a partially tax funded municipal course. I have played other privately owned public access courses where they are more aggressive in the application of pace of play policies. In either case, when the course is packed, it would be quite ineffectual for any slow group to start letting the groups behind them play though. All that does is leave them standing around waiting for group after group, but it does nothing to help speed play. 

Education is the only thing that will really solve the problem, and sometimes that only comes with tough love... i.e. if they hold things up and won't pick up the pace, they get ejected. :cheeky4: The course that will do that is a rare breed though. :dunno:


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## Golfbum (Oct 14, 2006)

Rick on most privately owned public courses up here the Rangers are powerless. They drive out and give the slow players a warning and that is the end of it. Rarely will anyone be kicked off a public course here due to slow play. It's all about the dollars. Owners feel if they kick slow players off then those players will not return resulting in lost revenue. 

However if owners get the pace of the play sped up at their courses they might gain revenue. As golfers find out they can get around a course in under 4 hours because Management actually enforces the Slow Play Rule then they might spend their money at that course.

The private course I work at has no Ranger and rarely does it take over 4 hours to play a round there. The members police themselves and their speed of play.


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## Fourputt (Nov 18, 2006)

Golfbum said:


> Rick on most privately owned public courses up here the Rangers are powerless. They drive out and give the slow players a warning and that is the end of it. Rarely will anyone be kicked off a public course here due to slow play. It's all about the dollars. Owners feel if they kick slow players off then those players will not return resulting in lost revenue.
> 
> However if owners get the pace of the play sped up at their courses they might gain revenue. As golfers find out they can get around a course in under 4 hours because Management actually enforces the Slow Play Rule then they might spend their money at that course.
> 
> The private course I work at has no Ranger and rarely does it take over 4 hours to play a round there. The members police themselves and their speed of play.


I posted some similar comments in your other slow play thread. I'm not a regular on any private course, so I don't really know that much. The one private course that I do play a few times a summer isn't crowded enough for slow play to be a problem. On that course it's easy to let a faster group play through. On the public course however, it is just too busy, and with so may groups, the odds are that at least a couple foursomes will be slower, and that start to slow the entire course down. And that is all it takes on a crowded course. It becomes very difficult to pick the pace back up again once the accordion effect starts.


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## Golfbum (Oct 14, 2006)

Fourputt said:


> I posted some similar comments in your other slow play thread. I'm not a regular on any private course, so I don't really know that much. The one private course that I do play a few times a summer isn't crowded enough for slow play to be a problem. On that course it's easy to let a faster group play through. On the public course however, it is just too busy, and with so may groups, the odds are that at least a couple foursomes will be slower, and that start to slow the entire course down. And that is all it takes on a crowded course. It becomes very difficult to pick the pace back up again once the accordion effect starts.


The private course I work at is busy! I know, I haul the bags out of the back shop and line them up for the members. In the summer the first tee time is 7:30 AM and it is usually solid tee times until noon. Every 8 or 9 minutes there is another group going off. I think the bottom line is on private courses is the respect the members have for one another. Not so much on public courses where it is every man/woman for themselves!

To be honest, slow play is not a big issue in this area of Ontario. Yes the courses get crowded at times. Maybe I do not see much slow play due to the fact I play early in the morning when there tends to be more serious golfers on the course.


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## Fourputt (Nov 18, 2006)

Golfbum said:


> The private course I work at is busy! I know, I haul the bags out of the back shop and line them up for the members. In the summer the first tee time is 7:30 AM and it is usually solid tee times until noon. Every 8 or 9 minutes there is another group going off. I think the bottom line is on private courses is the respect the members have for one another. Not so much on public courses where it is every man/woman for themselves!
> 
> To be honest, slow play is not a big issue in this area of Ontario. Yes the courses get crowded at times. Maybe I do not see much slow play due to the fact I play early in the morning when there tends to be more serious golfers on the course.


Heh heh.....In midsummer our first group generally goes off as early as 5:30 AM (First shift for starters begins at 5:15 on those days). The mowers are out on the 1st and 10th holes with headlights on by 5 to keep ahead of the players. We are usually packed all day every day until it's too late for a full 18 holes. On weekdays it's not always full foursomes for every tee time, but most times are reserved for at least a pair of golfers, and a lot of those slots are filled by walk-ons. It might slow down for an hour or so in late afternoon, then we start twilight rates, and the players start showing up to get on the the list, first come first served. I've had weekdays in the starter booth where I couldn't even squeeze in a single golfer for more than 3 hours. Sometimes I wonder when these people work to be able to afford the green fees...???  :laugh:


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## 373 (Jun 9, 2006)

With my ankle and knee problems keeping me from being able to play for a few months, this subject still irritates me. I won't reiterate what has been said already, because I couldn't solve anything even if I could say it better. I'll also join the camp that defends a golfer at any skill level who can move his or her way around the golf course instead of being rude and not knowing the etiquette of the game. It's in the rule book to make the game fun for all of us, but I wonder how many have read that part of the rule book.

So, to try putting a positive spin on this, here's my 2 cents worth. These are the things I wish I could see, and I'd be really interested to hear if this is the case with your favorite course.

I wish the Rangers actually DID something more than just being visible. Where I like to play, two Rangers ride around in carts with little flags on them and they do thing like refill the sand buckets on the player's carts... (stuff to fill divots with)... They might mention someone who lost a club and try to help them recover it... They tell us when the weather radar suggests something threatening is near by... They wave and put a friendly face on the golf course... BUT...

*What I have never seen them do is ENFORCE a group letting someone else through when the slow group is holding up the whole course.*

I wish there were signs in the cart to briefly explain to players that if the hole in front of them is open, they are playing too slowly and if someone behind them is waiting for them, it is THEM who are slow. It should also say the Rangers have authority to stop them and let following groups through.

*I wish there were signs on the tees of par 3 holes to suggest letting the following group hit up. I wish those signs mention good manners to do so in the process.* I know one place, in Jamaica of all places, where as an alternative, they put little huts with soft drink stands on the side of the par 3 tees. It let's people occupy a bit of time more comfortably than standing in the sun waiting for a group ahead of them to play the hole. On the other hand, the people I knew when I lived there, whether Jamaican, British or American, were much more polite on the course than most people are here.

So how do we fix what is broken? I think we need to start by educating the young generation.

I hope junior golf camps, seminars and lessons in general for the beginning age group include lessons on more than how to hit the ball. I hope they teach the children how to position themselves on a green so they didn't stay in sight when someone else is putting. I hope they teach them how to properly rake a bunker. I hope they learn and understand how rude it is to walk in someone else's line.

I hope they learn that it can even be dangerous to other people to be a distraction while someone else is hitting a shot. Golf balls are dangerous things, but more than once, I've seen someone who hit their ball into an adjacent fairway drive their cart out into the fairway just to sit and wait to hit their shot, while people on that hole have to wait and can't play the hole that would otherwise be open in front of them. Worse yet, I've seen the people on the tee simply hit their drives anyway, taking a chance of hitting the rude person in the fairway.

I hope they learn that betting on the golf course isn't something that is actually too frowned upon, since most people seem to agree it leads to a little incentive to pay attention. BUT - it shouldn't be allowed to become the only reason to play golf or take more time doing it... go back and reread a previous post about people who think they are on tour and make a 5 minute study worthy of a Ph.D. candidate out of every shot or putt.

In short, I have hope for the future generations.


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## Fourputt (Nov 18, 2006)

On my course the rangers don't force a play through, but what they will do is make the slow group skip a hole to catch up if they don't show any inclination to do anything on their own. That happened several times this last summer while I was working. 

One small issue that I have with our pace of play policy is that it is fixed to a maximum time rather than to actually keeping with the group ahead. I've had a group make the turn more than 15 minutes out of position with those ahead, but I can't say anything if they are within the 2:10 max time set for 9 holes. I feel that there should be a reasonable expectation for a foursome following another foursome, that regardless of the time, if they are more than a hole behind, then they are still _*behind*_. Unfortunately, those who set the rules haven't yet seen fit to adopt that sort of policy...


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