# Please help me!!



## waddles (Jul 29, 2010)

Hello

I am hoping someone can help me. I have been playing golf for 25 years (43 yrs old presently). I played to a 3/4 handicap for many years,- up until spring 2007. At that time,-in an effort to gain a few yards I started worrying about add’l shoulder turn. Major mistake as many golfers know. I essentially tinkered with something that was actually serving me well at the time. In doing so I somehow started ‘throwing’ the right shoulder ahead of letting my hands drop at the very beginning of my downswing. I managed to play, though not as well obviously, with this move for 2 plus years not even realizing I was doing it. Now I CAN’T STOP DOING IT. Over the last two years I’ve started hitting very poor shots with increasing regularity- weak drives to the right, shanks with irons, etc. Basically my shoulders are open/my chest is starting to face the target before the clubface even touches the ball. I cast out with my hands because my right shoulder is in the way-causing shanks and so forth. If I do slow motion swings during practice-pausing at the top of backswing I can eliminate my right shoulder kicking out at the start of my downswing. I can keep a lag and have my hands drop before my shoulder starts to fly. I can trap the ball with consistency like I used to. But the minute I try to swing at regular speed I start the downswing with my shoulders again. I can even feel myself doing it but I still can’t stop. I have tried for over a year to fix this. Do you have any drills I can practice to eliminate this issue? Unfortunately, I am thinking about maybe giving up the game for a while but deep down I would prefer not to. 

Thanks in advance!!


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## broken tee (Jan 13, 2008)

Waddles don't give up the game. I'm a high handicapper and my suggestion is get a friend or your pro to help you correct the quirk in your swing at the range. Since you know the problem that's half the battle the other half is willing to let someone stop you in mid swing to get the coordination of arms and body working together. This may not be what you wanted for an answer but its the best I can give. keep us informed on your progress.:thumbsup:


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## FrogsHair (Mar 4, 2010)

Just my $0.02 worth. I think you discribed part of your own fix. The slow motion practice swing is something you need to do more of. Something like 30-50 times every day for 30 days. It took a while for your poor swing habit to take effect, and now it's part of your normal swing. It will take a while for the SloMo drill you have described to replace it. Other drills might include 1/2-3/4 swings hitting the ball but not worrying about distance. It was wanting extra distance that created the problem in the first place. You want nice, easy, slow swings now to regain your timing. Another thing I have seen work for the same type of problem for a low handicapper is to put your clubs away for a few weeks. Then when you come back just use a nice easy swing. Your body has not forgotten your 3/4 handicap swing. It's just went schizo on you. Perhaps working with a weighted club might help you. You can make your own weighted club for a couple of bucks if you have an old club, you no longer use available. You also could focus on staying connected (upper arms & chest) during your swing. This will help with the "casting" issue. Try using a club head cover, placed 12"-18" behind the ball. Then work on hitting the ball without hitting the head cover. A drill I use is to swing the club from inside to outside, while using a mental image of a baseball field. I am in the batters box, and my alignment is over second base, to center field, but I focus on swinging my club head to right field. Perhaps focus on pulling the club head through the impact zone instead of pushing with your dominant hand. Also remember that passive hands/arms work well with a good hip turn. Sorry for the long windedness..


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## waddles (Jul 29, 2010)

FrogsHair said:


> Just my $0.02 worth. I think you discribed part of your own fix. The slow motion practice swing is something you need to do more of. Something like 30-50 times every day for 30 days. It took a while for your poor swing habit to take effect, and now it's part of your normal swing. It will take a while for the SloMo drill you have described to replace it. Other drills might include 1/2-3/4 swings hitting the ball but not worrying about distance. It was wanting extra distance that created the problem in the first place. You want nice, easy, slow swings now to regain your timing. Another thing I have seen work for the same type of problem for a low handicapper is to put your clubs away for a few weeks. Then when you come back just use a nice easy swing. Your body has not forgotten your 3/4 handicap swing. It's just went schizo on you. Perhaps working with a weighted club might help you. You can make your own weighted club for a couple of bucks if you have an old club, you no longer use available. You also could focus on staying connected (upper arms & chest) during your swing. This will help with the "casting" issue. Try using a club head cover, placed 12"-18" behind the ball. Then work on hitting the ball without hitting the head cover. A drill I use is to swing the club from inside to outside, while using a mental image of a baseball field. I am in the batters box, and my alignment is over second base, to center field, but I focus on swinging my club head to right field. Perhaps focus on pulling the club head through the impact zone instead of pushing with your dominant hand. Also remember that passive hands/arms work well with a good hip turn. Sorry for the long windedness..


Thank you for your feedback. I have often tried the head cover drill. Now it takes me about 10 swings to stop hitting it. But eventually I revert back to the same crappy motion-normally on the course. Again, thanks so much for your suggestions


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## waddles (Jul 29, 2010)

thank you broken tee and frogshair. I have been to a pro numerous times. So far the suggestions he has made appear to only provide a temporary fix. Eventually I always fall back into the same funk. The issue seems to be that this bad 'move' is not just slight. According to the pro it is as major as he has seen. He says he's surprised I ever hit the ball with any consistency. Great confidence booster! It's not just that my shoulders start to move a fraction ahead of the hands but instead they have already started to open 6 plus inches before the hands start to drop at all. So solid impact is completely impossible. I guess I was thinking there might be some type of trigger I could focus on to stop this. It's been incredibly frustrating. It's embarrassing to admit but this has caused me to lose sleep many times. Not to mention I'm backing out of golf committments that I have been involved with for years now. It's very depressing!


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## stevel1017 (Apr 30, 2007)

I know that is a frustrating fault, having it myself sometimes. Have you tried a swing key of keeping your back to the target as long as possible?
also google for "over the top" there are a million links on how to cure it


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## FrogsHair (Mar 4, 2010)

You might want to do a search (google) on "full swing yips". Most golfers associate the "yips" only with putting, but there are more than a few teaching pros who use the term for full swing problems that can't be easily solved. Especially for golfers who at one time were very low handicappers, or even playing scratch golf, who now can't swing their long clubs to save their souls. Hank Haney is one for them. In fact, I read an article where he himself actually suffered from what he called "full swing yips". If I remember correctly he basically had to rebuild his driver swing from scratch to get back on the road to a usable driver swing. 

Should you want to go that route, and rebuild your swing, a subject matter you might want to read up on is the swing/grip that Moe Norman used. He, imo invented the Natural Golf (NG) swing. I would caution that his NG swing should not be confused with the new NG golf swing now being marketed by others. Stick with Norman's version. Also know that Norman's NG swing will not work with standard lie clubs. They need to be more up right due to the grip he used.


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## waddles (Jul 29, 2010)

stevel1017 said:


> I know that is a frustrating fault, having it myself sometimes. Have you tried a swing key of keeping your back to the target as long as possible?
> also google for "over the top" there are a million links on how to cure it


Steve

I have not tried the swing key you mention above. I can see why that might help. I will give that a shot at the range tomorrow. I have looked at some 'over the top'stuff. I am trying not to get to wrapped up in them. There are so many that it can cause complete paralysis if you let it!

Thanks


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## waddles (Jul 29, 2010)

Frogshair

As much as I hate to admit it-I believe you are 100% correct with the 'full swing yips' analogy. I am so incredibly frustrated by this that I have lost all confidence in full swings on the course. It has been brewing for over two years now. Naturally, at the range where there are no distractions and really no pressure I can get some tempo and at least for a while minimize the bad downswing flaw. But it never totally goes away. I appreciate your comments and suggestions


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## FrogsHair (Mar 4, 2010)

So what are you doing different at the driving range, that you are not doing on the course? Might it be that at the range you are not actually aiming at anything, or don't care where the ball goes? You are just out there swinging a club at a golf ball. Where as on the course you have a target, and the stroke counts. I wouldn't totally buy into the full swing yips scenario quite yet. It was just an idea that I thought might help if you were to google it, and see what other golfers have done to help with the same swing issue you are dealing with. Personally if it was me who was struggling with this problem, I would put my clubs away for 3 or 4 weeks and go do something else, like fishing, or hiking. After the 3 or 4 weeks were up I would go back to the range with my short irons and hit a few 1/2-3/4 swings. If everything looked decent, I would use the same swings with my longer clubs. At the first sign of of the same problem showing up again, I would quit right there on the spot, to return a week, or so later. I wouldn't let myself keep hitting the same poor shot. I got myself into a shanking problem a few years ago. Couldn't get rid of them, even though I knew what I was doing wrong. I took a trash bag, and put it over my bag of clubs, and forgot about them for a couple of weeks, or so. Long story short it, worked, and my next time out, my shanks were gone. 


waddles said:


> Frogshair
> 
> As much as I hate to admit it-I believe you are 100% correct with the 'full swing yips' analogy. I am so incredibly frustrated by this that I have lost all confidence in full swings on the course. It has been brewing for over two years now. Naturally, at the range where there are no distractions and really no pressure I can get some tempo and at least for a while minimize the bad downswing flaw. But it never totally goes away. I appreciate your comments and suggestions


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## bredies (Feb 12, 2007)

Waddles I feel for you as I have gone through something similar and spent hours trying to solve the problem. It seems the harder we try to fix something the worse it gets and the more it plays on the mind.
I am now down to 2 swing thoughts (once I have set up correctly) and that is to start my backswing with my left shoulder and making sure my right elbow is contact with my body my next swing thought is to start the downswing with my hips.
In other words I take my arms totally out of my swing.
I think if you work on starting the down swing with your hips it might help.


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## rossbar (Aug 4, 2010)

FrogsHair you ask a good question--It is important for me to pick targets to shoot for at the driving range. Selecting targets and hitting targets is the skill I need to be building...not driving it far.


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