# Help the nooB with penalties.



## lefecious (Jul 11, 2007)

Hello everyone,
I've had a couple different people give me conflicting info on how to assign stroke penalties, so I was hoping you guys could clear it up for me. I'll give the scenarios:

1. I hit my tee shot out of bounds. I grab another ball and tee it up. I am now about to hit my 3rd shot, correct? I've been told this is a 2 stroke penalty, but it seems to me that if I'm on my 3rd shot, it's really only a 1 stroke penalty.

2. I'm on the fairway hitting my 2nd shot, and I hit it into bushes and can't find it. Lost ball. I drop another at the point where it went into the bushes and now I'm about to hit my 4th shot, correct?


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## 65nlovenit (Dec 8, 2006)

Scenario One - You have to look at your score card, what is the shot count when you finally get a shot in the fairway. You lost one shot for hitting it out of bounds. You lose another just for teeing up a new ball. When you finally get a shot away that you can play the count is now three. The first two shots got you nowhere, that would appear to be a two stroke penalty. 

Scenario Two... The shot count seems correct, but where your hitting it from doesn't. If you cannot find your ball, then how do you know where it went out of play. I would assume that the correct place to play the ball from would be where you hit it from when it got lost.... Not 100% sure of this fact....


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## Foster4 (May 2, 2007)

1. Yes your hitting your 3rd shot...your correct...We call this stroke and distance...so 1st shot is OB ...2nd shot(penality shot) is putting another ball in play...3rd stroke (actually hitting the ball again NOT a penality stroke) is When you hit the next tee ball..So 1 stroke penality because you play just like a water hazard except you can't drop by the OB stakes...that is why we call it stroke and distance..


2. Lost Ball...same as the OB rule...stroke and distance...Hit shot and lose ball....drop ball near same place you hit the last shot meaning where you dropped beside the bush is a breach of the rules and if you do in a tourny will me disqualifacation if the hole is played out...So you must return to the original spot...so again only a 1 stroke penality..


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## Foster4 (May 2, 2007)

now i know in the bristish open Romero hit it in one of those bushes ...idk if he found it ...for some reason i didn't think he did..but somehow got to take and unplayable and go back as far as he wanted as long as the hole and ball were in path of the line... Idk how he got to do this w/o verifying his ball was in the bush meaning he had to find it and see that it was in fact his ball...or that if since everyone saw it was in there he got to do it ...confusing ..but to my knowledge to take an unplayable you must find the ball and not just see it go somewhere


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## blue3715 (Aug 29, 2006)

If it is obvious where the ball is, but you cannot do a reasonable search for it (ala a huge pricker bush) you can call it unplayable. It's likely they could have spotted the ball if they looked harder.

check usga.org for those rulings. they are quite helpful.


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## 373 (Jun 9, 2006)

blue3715 said:


> If it is obvious where the ball is, but you cannot do a reasonable search for it (ala a huge pricker bush) you can call it unplayable.


I believe to be considered unplayable and to apply the rules for that condition, (opposed to those of a lost ball), the ball actually has to be found and positively identified. I'm not sure there's anything to say the ball actually has to be recovered in hand, so if you can see well enough into the thorn bush to convince your opponent the ball is yours, I'm pretty sure rules about unplayable lie apply.

I'm pretty sure that seeing a ball in the thorn bush, but not being to positively ID that ball by virtue of your mark or, at the least in casual play, the brand and number, means the ball has to be considered lost.


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## Chipmunkslayer (Jun 17, 2007)

On my last round, I learned a simple but effective way of handling both of these issues (though something probably not generally used on tour).

Anytime the guy I was paired with hit one out of bounds, in the water, or into a thorn bush (yup, all 3 happened), he would say "I'll buy a round at the clubhouse bar after this if you didn't see what just happened". And then would promptly put another ball on the tee, or poke the ball out of the bush - and kick it into the fairway.

That guy was an amazing player. I've never seen somebody hit so many fairways in regulation - and I ended up having to spend some time at the driving range after to sober up


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## Foster4 (May 2, 2007)

ok yea i thought there was some kind of explanation for the Romero thing..sticker bush...Thanks for the reply ...but if the ball is lost in tall grass etc you have to deem it as a lost ball...


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## blue3715 (Aug 29, 2006)

DennisM said:


> I believe to be considered unplayable and to apply the rules for that condition, (opposed to those of a lost ball), the ball actually has to be found and positively identified. I'm not sure there's anything to say the ball actually has to be recovered in hand, so if you can see well enough into the thorn bush to convince your opponent the ball is yours, I'm pretty sure rules about unplayable lie apply.
> 
> I'm pretty sure that seeing a ball in the thorn bush, but not being to positively ID that ball by virtue of your mark or, at the least in casual play, the brand and number, means the ball has to be considered lost.


Yet another good reason to properly and uniquely mark your ball.


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## 373 (Jun 9, 2006)

Chipmunkslayer said:


> Anytime the guy I was paired with hit one out of bounds, in the water, or into a thorn bush (yup, all 3 happened), he would say "I'll buy a round at the clubhouse bar after this if you didn't see what just happened". And then would promptly put another ball on the tee, or poke the ball out of the bush - and kick it into the fairway.


I'm going to suggest bribes to one particular guy I play with. He regularly picks up his ball as if to ID that it is his, and carefully places it back on a good lie. He hits mulligans on any tee that his first shot isn't satisfying and never counts them. He'll even take a mulligan from the fairway or rough and use the better shot. He hasn't counted a penelty stroke in years. Sometimes, I wish he wasn't such a nice guy and good friend otherwise. It would make it a lot easier not to want to play golf with him. At least, if his dozen or so mulligans a round amounted to a couple beers for me, it might be worth it.


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## blue3715 (Aug 29, 2006)

it will only hurt him when he plays a semi-real event. He's turning in scores well below his normal score.
Secondly, most balls in the fwy are going to be decent lies. Him ID'ing his ball and placing it down should have too much of an effect.

you should also remind him that the rules state that the ball, if picked up and ID's:
1. Cannot be cleaned (unless removing a tiny amt of dirt is needed to id the ball)
2. Must be place back in the same EXACT lie


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