# I have a BIG problem.



## Shawnr (Feb 21, 2007)

Hey Guys. Found the site last night when I was desperately looking for answers. Some back story?

Im 22 years old. I got into a small/medium company 3 years ago and discovered they had an annual golf trip to Palm Springs, Ca. to golf it up for a weekend. I always am, always will be a skateboarder, and being young and “too cool” I was thinking Golf = Lame. 

So I go out a few times so that I can get accustomed to a course before going on the trip and quickly become addicted to that soft, smooth swing that sends the ball yards and yards away.

Fast forward 2 years and I’ve been on two golf trips (and other courses/ranges, of course from time to time) and have a good idea about the game. Two days ago I bought my own clubs. (Wilson ProStaff) I like them a lot and had a coworker go with me to pick them up so he offered his opinion on which to get. They are a “higher-low end” set (from my understanding) and were in my price range for GOOD clubs. 

(sorry this is going so long guys)

I like them a lot. But I have a HUGE problem. I break clubs. To date I have broken my dad’s Taylormade 3 wood, my co-workers Cougar driver (I’m not sure which) and last night my own Wilson Prostaff 3 wood. 

The same break, all three times. I know what I’m doing wrong, but I don’t know why or how to fix it. I have never had lessons besides the more experienced guys I play with giving my slight tips. Here is a little break down until I figure out how to post pictures on this forum. Here is a club;

[___________

here is where I have broken all three;

[ ___________

The exact spot where the club head meets the shaft. I am literally hitting the ball right where the two meet and sending the ball 150 yards and my club head 75. I can visibly see the golf ball marks on the shaft/connection part of the clubs. All three have been “re-shaft-able” but that isn’t the point. I must have learned a bad habit and cannot figure out how to fix it.

I do not have these problems with the irons it seems like. I hit towards the shaft sometimes but not the actually the “connection” part. Tonight I should be able to post pictures if this isn’t enough information. I have a decent swing and can get good hits with all my clubs. I would say that 3 or 4 out of 10 swings will be good, straight shots, and the others will be sliced (to the right) and almost NEVER to the left.

The slice I can work on. Hitting the shaft I am apparently clueless about. Thanks a lot for reading, I know it got kinda long, but I really need help with this because I don’t want to break anymore clubs!


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## Fourputt (Nov 18, 2006)

Reading a book isn't going to help much. You really need to find a PGA Pro and take a lesson or two. Any decent pro can watch your swing and get you headed in the right direction. I think that both of your problems are connected. The slice and the shank are both usually caused by an out to in swing path, often with an open clubface as well, and that's a common situation that most teaching pros deal with every day. I was about at your point in playing regularly when I took my first lesson, and believe me, it's a revelation. :thumbsup:


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## Shawnr (Feb 21, 2007)

From what i have read around the forums here it seems like alot of people are bringing up at least 3-5 lessons from a pro. I wouldnt mind that at all i suppose, in fact, i was thinking just last night that while i tried to fix my own problems; without someone there telling me what i am doing wrong i wont get anywhere.

i guess i will just look up some "swing-based literature" 

nobody has any idea what exactly causes the connection to come at the head of the club and the base of the shaft


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## Golfbum (Oct 14, 2006)

Shawnr said:


> From what i have read around the forums here it seems like alot of people are bringing up at least 3-5 lessons from a pro. I wouldnt mind that at all i suppose, in fact, i was thinking just last night that while i tried to fix my own problems; without someone there telling me what i am doing wrong i wont get anywhere.
> 
> i guess i will just look up some "swing-based literature"
> 
> nobody has any idea what exactly causes the connection to come at the head of the club and the base of the shaft


No offense meant here, but your problem is you do not know how to properly swing a golf club. You need to go see a PRO and be taught how to swing a golf club.

I have golfed for 25 years, and I don't care what book anyone tries to push on you to read. It will not help you one bit if you do not have the basic grasp of how to swing properly.

Do yourself a favor and go see a pro before you ruin more clubs.


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## zaphod (Jan 3, 2007)

Getting lessons from a pro is the correct answer but in reality not always possible. I live in rural Wisconsin difficult for me to get the travel time to visit a pro

At the very minimum I would go to the range and work at getting solid contact 99% of the time with a 1/2 to 3/4 backswing. Keep the tempo of this swing crisp. Go to thumbs up on the backswing to thumbs up on the front side Once you develop consistency you can move on to a full swing. Nick Faldo has a fine book on golf Google him.

Without seeing your swing the fault of hitting shaft-hosel it is not easy to diagnose however it sounds very similar to shanking. You may be falling forward on downswing. Balance is essential to the swing. Maintain the same spine angle on the backswing and downswing. Again slowing down and shorting the swing for ingraining changes is the way to go. 

best of luck and hope this helps


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## Fourputt (Nov 18, 2006)

The problem is Shawn, shanking can be caused by several swing faults, all of which ultimately lead to swinging outside of the path you think you are setup for. It could be caused by your grip, by your stance, by your takeaway, by your transition, or by your downswing. Without seeing you swing we can't even make a guess as to what you are doing. 

That is why we suggest seeing a pro. We don't get any kickbacks, and I'm not a pro so I don't have any axe to grind. I don't recommend signing up for more than a single 1/2 hour lesson to start with, for 2 reasons. One, he might get you straightened out in one session, obviously the best scenario (if he does you found a good teacher). Two, he might not be the one that works for you and you might have to shop around. I don't know where you live or what options you might have, so that's the best advice I can offer. :dunno:


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## 65nlovenit (Dec 8, 2006)

Can you get your hands on a camcorder, if so get someone to make a movie of your swing from behind and from the side. 

USE PRACTICE BALLS OR BETTER STILL ONE OF THOSE BALLS WITH THE HOLES IN THEM.

Then you'll have something you can actually see yourself doing, compare it with video's you can find on the web. I'm not saying you shouldn't take a lesson but if its hard for you to get to a teaching facility at least you'll be able to see WHY your doing what your doing...... Just a suggestion
Del


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## Butz (Nov 17, 2006)

Fourputt said:


> Reading a book isn't going to help much. You really need to find a PGA Pro and take a lesson or two. Any decent pro can watch your swing and get you headed in the right direction. I think that both of your problems are connected. The slice and the shank are both usually caused by an out to in swing path, often with an open clubface as well, and that's a common situation that most teaching pros deal with every day. I was about at your point in playing regularly when I took my first lesson, and believe me, it's a revelation. :thumbsup:


Very well said 4Putt.

Sir ShawnR, 
take the advice of GolfBum, 4Putt & ZaPhod.
I have seen cases where novice golfer breaks their expensive Drivers.
You shouldnt get discouraged when you break something. My wife broke a TaylorMade driver a few months ago. We just fixed it, by changing the shaft.


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## zaphod (Jan 3, 2007)

Just another quick thought. Step away from the driver.For a high hcp golfer you are better off playing with irons in the short grass than army golf(you know -left ,right, left pick-up the broken club). These shorter shafted clubs are easier to hit and will help you develop a consistant swing. No lower than 5 iron. Take lessons if you can even if they are group lessons at a range as the learning curve easier. 

BTW I have 7 Hcp with low round of 72 on the Legislator at Robert Trent Jones trail from the tips. I have never taken a lesson however this is the hard way to go. If I had to choose again I would have gotten lessons early and I paid to have my son have them at 7th grade level. He drives 300 and was #1 all conference in H.S. Now at 20 golf is his life long hobby.

Its a choice of how serious you what to get about the game.
For a role model look the the rocker-golf addict Alice Cooper.

Told ya that this would be lively discussion


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## Shawnr (Feb 21, 2007)

Wow guys. Thanks a lot to everyone who has put in. Some things;



Golfbum said:


> No offense meant here, but your problem is you do not know how to properly swing a golf club. You need to go see a PRO and be taught how to swing a golf club.


No offence taken at all. In fact, THAT is the reason that I came here in the first place.



Fourputt said:


> Without seeing you swing we can't even make a guess as to what you are doing.


I will try to get some footy of my swings. I was actually a step ahead and was looking into getting that done. Im going to look into getting some lessons, and we will go from there.

Being a skateboarder I know a few things about patience and trying the same stupid thing over and over. My favorite and most seemingly workable advice, besides getting lessons would be practicing in a field like setting (where I don’t have to pay for balls) is to practice with each club. One club per week. Till I know the ins and outs of each one.

I can get some solid, good hits but the consistency isn’t there. After going through “the gambit” of my clubs, I feel like I will be a lot more consistent. Thanks a lot again everyone.



zaphod said:


> BTW I have 7 Hcp with low round of 72 on the Legislator at Robert Trent Jones trail from the tips.


Now all I need to learn is the lingo …  

And if anyone else has anything good let me know, I’m still willing to learn!


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## Butz (Nov 17, 2006)

Hey ShawnR,

I hope this will help you...

I bought a 40oz Momentus swing trainer and do a 50 swing every day, from right to left ( as a right hander ), and make sure my right & left arms & wrist stay straight.

Sometimes, I closed my eyes & visualized my downswing, perfect & hitting the ball away from the tees or grass.

I do this slow...slow becoz I was told by a friend that this will developed my muscle memory, and eventually will developed my swing speed.

In the golf driving range, I have observed the ff:
To be honest, if my back swing is fast, I either hit my irons shank...which will create slice.

But if I do it slowly, my balls fly straighter.

My Pro would always tell me to relax and take my time in hitting my balls...in all clubs.

Whats important is to hit the impact square.

hope this helps & makes sense...


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## Shawnr (Feb 21, 2007)

Butz said:


> Hey ShawnR,
> 
> I hope this will help you...
> 
> I bought a 40oz Momentus swing trainer and do a 50 swing every day, from right to left ( as a right hander ), and make sure my right & left arms & wrist stay straight.


what is that?  A heavy "club-like item" that makes you ... practice?

whats "a 50 swing"? 50 swings?




Butz said:


> hope this helps & makes sense...


this makes perfect sense because when i go slow, and dont over think i tend to have better hits and more solid contact. But when the driver is in my hands, i tend to ... i dunno, become anxious. Not all the time, but often enough for me to break clubs and become fustrated because i can feel it hit the part where the clubhead meets the shaft.

also;

is "shank" the part of the club I keep hitting?


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## Bobay1956 (Jan 18, 2007)

Shawn,

I'm surprised you haven't hit yourself in the ankle or head. Some professional advice is needed here like most of the other guys have already suggested.

Similarly, I played another sport, tennis, before golf. I played 4 years in high school and two years in college. Still play now, but tennis is not as accepted in business as golf is. Probably because there's not as many places to keep a beer.

After playing for a year (25 years ago), my friends convinced me to take a lesson or two and the Pro made several things completely clear. It was great.

I would suggest, in addition to getting some lessons on the range, that you take a nine hole playing lesson with that Pro. As you get better, game management becomes very important.


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## Shawnr (Feb 21, 2007)

Bobay1956 said:


> Shawn,
> I'm surprised you haven't hit yourself in the ankle or head.


HEY! come on now! It isnt _THAT _ bad! 

So, i will look into lessons, and if they are in my price range (single, living alone, in orange county california, with a decent job for my age but still i watch those dimes).

What seems to (mostly) work for me is talking to the guys who perform well at the range. I know golf is some people's release, and normally you can tell who doesnt want to be bothered. But i think im a pretty clean looking guy, and im energetic and out going, so starting a conversation with some of older gentlemen ::dodges thrown clubs from the older guys here:: is not a problem, and they tend to be helpful.


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## zaphod (Jan 3, 2007)

Yoy are absolutely on the right track and attitude. its play golf not work golf

enjoy


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## 300Yards (Jan 23, 2007)

Seems to me that if your hitting the shaft, your teeing it too high..Try teeing it lower, and see if it helps. Are you heeling the ball too? Like off the hosel side of the face?


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## Shawnr (Feb 21, 2007)

300Yards said:


> Are you heeling the ball too? Like off the hosel side of the face?


again with teh lingo... sorry im SUCH a noob, but i have no cule what that means...:dunno:


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## 300Yards (Jan 23, 2007)

Hey, it's no big deal...I was a noob once too. I'll try to explain it: The hosel is the side where the shaft(the thing you hold onto) connects into the clubhead. So, if your heeling the ball, it means your hitting the hosel side of the face..the toe is the side of the face, opposite of the shaft, or hosel side.. The sweet spot, is the spot between these too, in the middle, most likely...does that make sense?

I hope so, becasue it's the best I can explain it...


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## Shawnr (Feb 21, 2007)

300Yards said:


> Hey, it's no big deal...I was a noob once too. I'll try to explain it: The hosel is the side where the shaft(the thing you hold onto) connects into the clubhead. So, if your heeling the ball, it means your hitting the hosel side of the face..the toe is the side of the face, opposite of the shaft, or hosel side.. The sweet spot, is the spot between these too, in the middle, most likely...does that make sense?
> 
> I hope so, becasue it's the best I can explain it...


after reading that sevenhundredandsixtyeight times i get it. (after twice!) But to make 100percent sure, let me do a "dumb" version;

When in "the stance" prepairing for a hit, the hosel is the part of the face of the club CLOSEST to you and the toe is the part FARTHER from you. The sweet spot the the part of the face with no lines, where all my golfball marks should be


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## Butz (Nov 17, 2006)

Shawnr said:


> what is that?  A heavy "club-like item" that makes you ... practice?
> 
> whats "a 50 swing"? 50 swings?
> 
> ...


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## Fourputt (Nov 18, 2006)

Actually a shank isn't a bad slice, it's worse. A shank is hitting the ball off the hosel. *The hosel is the part of the heel of the clubhead where the shaft is attached.* Quite often when you shank a ball, it doesn't feel that bad, then you look up and its headed 45 degrees right. Unless you have some peculiar woods, you can't shank them... you can heel them and it's pretty ugly, but you can normally only shank iron shots. If he is breaking metalwood clubs at the top of the hosel, I wouldn't even presume to guess what is causing it. I've never heard of such a thing.


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## 300Yards (Jan 23, 2007)

That is correct! Is basically like your foot, if you stretch your foot out, your heel is closest to you, and your toes are farthest from you, it's the same with a golf club, except your leg is replaced with a shaft.


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## 300Yards (Jan 23, 2007)

Fourputt said:


> Actually a shank isn't a bad slice, it's worse. A shank is hitting the ball off the hosel. *The hosel is the part of the heel of the clubhead where the shaft is attached.* Quite often when you shank a ball, it doesn't feel that bad, then you look up and its headed 45 degrees right. Unless you have some peculiar woods, you can't shank them... you can heel them and it's pretty ugly, but you can normally only shank iron shots. If he is breaking metalwood clubs at the top of the hosel, I wouldn't even presume to guess what is causing it. I've never heard of such a thing.


I already said how he's doin it: he's teeing the ball to high. How else could he be getting under that far?? As far as him hitting the shaft, it's probaly because he's rushing his downswing, instead of dropping it in the slot, and wacking the shaft. 

Just make sure you keep that right elbow, as close to your body as you can. If all else fails, then stretch the club out real far in front of you, so that you can't push the club out more.


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## Shawnr (Feb 21, 2007)

I finally got time to get with some of the better golfers at my work today. Friday, as anyone in an office will know, is (mostly) an auto-piolet day. We have a big trade show coming up so _everyone_ was willing to talk to game for at least a little bit

A.) Your swing is bad.

B.) Your tee is too high.

I got answer A from people who didnt really care to help me at all and didnt really listen, rather just waiting for their turn to talk. (like 2 guys)

I got answer B from the better more sincere people. Also, I got that i was standing too close. I didnt go to the driving range but i think i will lower that tee and see how it goes. I went to a course today, exec. 9 hole course. I think im going to make a thread about it in General..


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## Butz (Nov 17, 2006)

Fourputt said:


> Actually a shank isn't a bad slice, it's worse. A shank is hitting the ball off the hosel. *The hosel is the part of the heel of the clubhead where the shaft is attached.* Quite often when you shank a ball, it doesn't feel that bad, then you look up and its headed 45 degrees right. Unless you have some peculiar woods, you can't shank them... you can heel them and it's pretty ugly, but you can normally only shank iron shots. If he is breaking metalwood clubs at the top of the hosel, I wouldn't even presume to guess what is causing it. I've never heard of such a thing.


Hey Sir Rick,
based on my observation, My golf iron swing are flying straight. No slice, it just flies straight & high trajectory.

However, when I start hitting or using my Golf Driver, my poor ball flies to the right, its far alright but it goes to the Right. Quite an aweful sight. Lol


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## Fourputt (Nov 18, 2006)

Butz said:


> Hey Sir Rick,
> based on my observation, My golf iron swing are flying straight. No slice, it just flies straight & high trajectory.
> 
> However, when I start hitting or using my Golf Driver, my poor ball flies to the right, its far alright but it goes to the Right. Quite an aweful sight. Lol


That's because the lower loft angle on the driver imparts less backspin, but that creates the potential for more sidespin, and sidespin is what causes the ball to slice. There are ways to correct it, or at least minimize it. 

You can try a driver with higher face loft angle. If you are currently using a 10° driver, you could go to an 11° or 12°, or even switch to a 3W for your tee shots. You could go to a draw biased driver (designed weight and shape to help make the ball go more left). 

You could see a teaching pro and see if he can see what is wrong with your swing that causes the slice... there can be several small faults that singly or collectively can add up to a slice. That might the best solution in the long term, but usually takes longer effect a change too.

Lots of ways to help out a slicing driver, but you have to just figure out which idea(s) works for you. :dunno:


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## 300Yards (Jan 23, 2007)

Fourputt said:


> Actually a shank isn't a bad slice, it's worse. *A shank is hitting the ball off the hosel*. *The hosel is the part of the heel of the clubhead where the shaft is attached.* Quite often when you shank a ball, it doesn't feel that bad, then you look up and its headed 45 degrees right. Unless you have some peculiar woods, you can't shank them... you can heel them and it's pretty ugly, but you can normally only shank iron shots. If he is breaking metalwood clubs at the top of the hosel, I wouldn't even presume to guess what is causing it. I've never heard of such a thing.


I though a shank was hitting way off the toe, and the ball going straight right??


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## 300Yards (Jan 23, 2007)

Shawnr said:


> I finally got time to get with some of the better golfers at my work today. Friday, as anyone in an office will know, is (mostly) an auto-piolet day. We have a big trade show coming up so _everyone_ was willing to talk to game for at least a little bit
> 
> A.) Your swing is bad.
> 
> ...


Please get to us on how it goes..I would like to know if your still off the hosel or not.


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## Fourputt (Nov 18, 2006)

300Yards said:


> I though a shank was hitting way off the toe, and the ball going straight right??


No. That would be a toed shot. A shank is logically hit with the shank of the club... that being the general area where the shaft and clubhead join. The term is generally only applied to iron shots, because they are the only clubs where contact with that raised part of the hosel will send the ball low and right. On a wood type club, the heel is smooth and results in a different sort of ugly ball flight, usually low and left from the clubface spinning left on impact. 

You can usually tell a toed shot because you can feel the shock all the way up to your teeth. A shank, at least with the cavity irons that I have used for years, doesn't _feel_ like that bad a shot. I can tell I didn't hit it sweet, but it's always a shock to look up to follow the ball and see it careening off to the right. Fortunately for me it's a rare event.


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## white_tiger_137 (Mar 23, 2006)

Quick Fix= Try to hit it on the toe of the club.  






I'm serious


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## Butz (Nov 17, 2006)

Fourputt said:


> You can try a driver with higher face loft angle. If you are currently using a 10° driver, you could go to an 11° or 12°, or even switch to a 3W for your tee shots. You could go to a draw biased driver (designed weight and shape to help make the ball go more left).
> You could see a teaching pro and see if he can see what is wrong with your swing that causes the slice... there can be several small faults that singly or collectively can add up to a slice. That might the best solution in the long term, but usually takes longer effect a change too.


Sir Rick,

Many thanks for your inputs and tips 

RIght now, I do have a teaching Pro who guides me 3x a week, and even in the fairways too.

When I do a dry swing, my full swing is perfect, but when I do the actual thing, it shanks terribly.

Its like 7 out of 10 slice Big time. lol
There are times, my balls goes or flies to long enough that it reaches to the other fairways or sometimes, hits the roof of the nearby houses.

However, when I used my irons, from 4 irons to 9 to PW, I do not shank them at all. Thats why it puzzles me.

But I am working on it. In due time, I am confident I will fixed it!

Changing my driver would now be too costly. Since I have two drivers. One more problem here is, we do not have Golf shops here that sell 11, 11.5, 12 degrees. 
Almost all sell drivers at 10, 10.5, 9.5 and 9.0 degrees. Thats the problem here when your far away from USA.


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## CallawayKid4 (Jan 25, 2007)

Hope your trip goes well man..Tee em high and hit em hard!


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## cesc (Mar 3, 2007)

Yeah keep us informed on how it goes and good luck once more mate.


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