# Courtesy on the golf course



## broken tee (Jan 13, 2008)

This may sound like a rant, but its a peev of mine. The lack of courtesy on the course, Not raking sand traps, repairing ball marks, or replacing diviots or simply putting trash in the can.is it just me that sees this or this a common problem?


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## Surtees (Sep 11, 2007)

As I play many of the local courses here it seem that this problem exist at all of them to some state and I dont think that it's is just the cheap course that have this issue either. Yes it gets under my skin too!


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## Biggs1001 (Aug 8, 2009)

Pair a lack of understanding with a lack of care, and you've got a recipe for some uuuuugly upkeep on the courses.

I know many new golfers who have no idea what a divot tool is, does, or even looks like.

Spike marks on the green are my new pet peeve -- catch a hole following the right type of people and the green looks like it was roto-tilled.


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## shwillkid (May 20, 2009)

Most of the courses I play are bermuda so replacing divots is not always possible and sand isn't always provided but not fixing ball marks drives me crazy. I rarely hit a green from far enough away to make a ball mark of my own yet it seems that I still fix 18 - 20 ball marks per round. Weird huh?


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## custom cluber (Jun 22, 2009)

I started golf course maintnence jobs at a young age and didn't even golf for years after that and I for one have seen the rapid decline in respect for course ,fellow golfers, and self on the course. I always use to say if each person is suppose to repair two divots then why are there divots?. and tee's on the tee are another one, People don't realize that in order to mow the tee you have to remove all those broken tee's( pun intended B/T) before you can cut them. I now carry a tazer with me and shock those who fail to complie with my vision for golf course maintnence.POW! C/C


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## 373 (Jun 9, 2006)

Very timely thread considering what I experienced yesterday. For a change, it was a good experience.

I agree that courtesy has been lacking on the course for quite a while now. I tend to play a course near me for the convenience, not that it's so well maintained by either the owner, (the Bicardi family), or the players. I won't even go into the etiquette and how players treat other players there... lost balls that haven't stopped rolling and all that.

Yesterday, I played the TPC course at Heron Bay, where the Honda tournament was played for a couple years. It's in Coral Springs, Florida near Ft. Lauderdale. It was wonderfully different to see how people acted around the course. Someone on an adjacent fairway waited a couple minutes for our group to drive down the fairway because my playing partner's ball had taken a funny bounce into a bush and the guy who saw it realized there was nobody who would find it otherwise. That really went beyond the call of duty, but was just a really nice gesture.

There were occasional signs around tees reminding you to use the fertilized sand provided on the cart and the Ranger riding around resupplied you if you needed more.

There were signs by the greens asking you to repair your ball mark and one other and to repair scuffed foot prints. Simply being reminded to do a little extra, we did and I noticed a few other people doing the same.

The Ranger also did something I have never seen before, something that made things comfortable for everyone concerned. The TPC has rakes by the traps, not on the carts. Large fairway bunkers might have 4 or 5 rakes scattered around them. He actually checked around the course and if all the rakes had moved to one side or the other, he redistributed the rakes around the bunkers, more or less evenly, so nobody had any excuse to leave a bunker unraked for lack of a nearby rake. I thought that was brilliant.

Anyway, it was really nice to have a GOOD experience, but it also pointed out how lacking courtesy on the course has become in other places.

Now I'm going to say something a little odd... Do you think "ready golf" might sometimes contribute to a breakdown of etiquette? I know a couple people who might make an occasional birdie, but they play ready golf and seem to get their nose out of joint if they aren't asked to accept their honor off the next tee. Sometimes I wonder if it speeds some people up too much.

Other than poor course maintenance by players, where I see the biggest breakdown is in slow players not letting faster players through. At that nearby course, there are no Rangers, so people sometimes join up into 5-6 person groups and nobody does anything about it. When it happens early in the day, it makes it slow for the rest of the day. There have plenty of times we have skipped a hole to cut in front of a group like that.


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## shwillkid (May 20, 2009)

DennisM said:


> Do you think "ready golf" might sometimes contribute to a breakdown of etiquette? I know a couple people who might make an occasional birdie, but they play ready golf and seem to get their nose out of joint if they aren't asked to accept their honor off the next tee. Sometimes I wonder if it speeds some people up too much.
> QUOTE]
> 
> I never thought about this. My group always plays ready golf, but if we are playing a game of some kind we do adhere to low score gets honor off the next tee. It's never even been discussed. If we happen to playing match play, the ready golf obviously stops once we hit the green and are putting.


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## 373 (Jun 9, 2006)

I don't want to blame ready golf, but I think there's room for ready golf and the etiquette of the game to co-exist in harmony. 

I used to play with a friend who was a contridiction of terms. Sometimes he was in such a hurry that it got in the way of the rest of us enjoying ourselves. Other times, we couldn't get him to get out of the way while he did things like held people up and searched for balls in lakes. You may remember me mentioning him in the past, unable to count a penalty if he lost a ball... On a particular par 3 I remember... One in the lake, (penalty), three in the bushes, four out, five on the green and two putts somehow equaled bogey.

And somehow, after I made birdie on the hole, he was up first on the tee.

But then he would sit in the cart by the green writing down his score instead of driving to the next tee, making people in the fairway wait while he did so because the cart paths at Calusa are close enough to the greens to leave you in danger if someone pulls or pushes a shot badly enough.

He is still a good friend, but there were times I wanted to just smack him on the head and wake him up.

The other guy I play with is just the opposite. Sometimes I wonder if David could possibly think of any more ways to be courteous. He is a joy to play golf with and I would love him like a brother if he would just stop making so damned many putts!


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## Surtees (Sep 11, 2007)

DennisM said:


> I don't want to indite ready golf, but I think there's room for ready golf and the etiquette of the game to co-exist in harmony.
> 
> I used to play with a friend who was a contridiction of terms. Sometimes he was in such a hurry that it got in the way of the rest of us enjoying ourselves. Other times, we couldn't get him to get out of the way while he did things like held people up and searched for balls in lakes. You may remember me mentioning him in the past, unable to count a penalty if he lost a ball... On a particular par 3 I remember... One in the lake, (penalty), three in the bushes, four out, five on the green and two putts somehow equaled bogey.
> 
> And somehow, after I made birdie on the hole, he was up first on the tee.


I agree my normal threesome plays ready tee-off or we rotate honours between us but this is just in casual rounds for match play the honours system works for sure. I think that aas long as everyone is happy with the way your group is playing then it's fine but if someone wants their honours when they mate a birdie or something like that i think its fair to give it to them.

Dennis maybe your friend was teeing off first so he could go and search for his ball while the rest of your group teeed off....:dunno:


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## Up North (Jul 3, 2008)

at times I honestly feel that most people have no clue as to what golf etiquette is or even exists. Ball marks, divots, raking the bunker, taking out chunks of the hole when replacing the pin, leaving garbage laying around, these all seem to be a never ending problem but I find them easier to deal with then slow play. Me and a buddy waited behind one guy that was playing two balls. After waiting on him for three holes I finally drove up to him and asked him if he'd let us play through since he was playing two balls, and mentioned that technically he is not supposed to be doing that anyway. He got all fired up and huffy about it, I told him okay just cool down and we'll let the clubhouse handle this. So I called the clubhouse on my way back to the tee box and he was kicked off the course within 10 minutes. The people playing behind us bought us each a beer.

Slow play is a huge pet peeve of mine. I don't expect people to rush through their play, but don't drag your feet when leaving the green. Grab your ball and get to the next tee box, don't lollygag around. 

Buck


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## 373 (Jun 9, 2006)

There is one public course near me that allows walking and they contend, (and are supported by national studies), that the riding golfer holds up the course more than the walking golfer.


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## Surtees (Sep 11, 2007)

The last two post from up north and Dennis are great I agree slow play is my biggest pet peeve too! By no means an I the worlds fastest play but I'm not the slowest either if someone catchs up to us we let them through and all i want is the same in return. I also agree with your local course Dennis if people dont know how to use the cart to speed up plat they can be twice as slow as a walking group and they get none of the exercise that the walking group gets. I for one like walking the course its one of the thing i enjoy about playing golf just being out there with nature it can be relaxing.


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## Up North (Jul 3, 2008)

I agree with the walking vs. cart play also. Often I see two people in a cart and they've each hit to opposite sides, usually in the rough or worse. It takes more time for one guy to get out, grab his club, prepare for the shot, make the shot, watch the shot, put club away, get back into cart and drive across the fairway to the other guy's (or gal) ball and repeat the whole process again. When walking you each simply walk to your own ball, after one guy hits the next guy should be ready to launch his. 

But again it comes down to whether or not people know the proper etiquette. I've witnessed very slow play with either walking or riding. On the flip side, it's a nice day when people have good etiquette and are walking off the green as you get to the tee box. Makes for a nice round when you can get into a rythym. (did I spell that right?) rythm, rythem, rythum, rythym, rithym, oh whatever. Now you can accuse me of slow play on the keyboard. 

Buck


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## custom cluber (Jun 22, 2009)

LOL, slow play on the keys thats good. For me it is the issue with carts as previously stated and people on the green who mark the ball after every shot when no else on the green is in danger of their ball. I asked a guy why he does it and he said that seeing someone elses ball in his perifial vision messes him up. I would just like to walk the course and not be rushed or held up. Played yesterday with 2 guys who would hit a million balls until the got the shot they desired and then the ones girl friend would run around and grab all the missed shots, Not to mention they never counted drops or added up all thier missed strokes.


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## Surtees (Sep 11, 2007)

custom cluber said:


> added up all thier missed strokes.


what do you mean by this C/C? do you mean your meant to count a stroke if you go to hit the ball and have a fresh air shot?


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## 373 (Jun 9, 2006)

custom cluber said:


> Played yesterday with 2 guys who would hit a million balls until the got the shot they desired and then the ones girl friend would run around and grab all the missed shots, Not to mention they never counted drops or added up all their missed strokes.


Don't get me wrong, if they didn't hold up the game behind them, I don't disagree with how they want to play.

On the other hand, while another foursome waited on the tee, I've seen some groups hit multiple balls, not that they had hit a ball in the water or anything, but as you said, until they hit one they liked.

I would love to walk too, but I can only do it on a course with a cart path all the way around the course. The damage I did to my knee a little over a year ago has not rehabilitated well. It's still really unstable and walking on unlevel surfaces is really scary. Just walking from the cart to the green over clumpy grass is something I have to be very careful about. Walking a whole 9 or 18 hole round would be a thrill, but if I want to continue playing golf, I have to ride unless every round is at someplace as manicured as the TPC course I played last weekend.

Back to the gang who hit lots of balls and couldn't count... If you lie to yourself enough, it starts to take on the aura of truth. While they aren't being honest with themselves about their golf games, they might be having more fun than those of us who do. I wish I had never been so good at math...


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## broken tee (Jan 13, 2008)

I sometimes feel the starter has a lot to do with slow play. Example; 4some riding, 2some riding, 4some walking, single riding, at some point in this sequence someone is going to wait.


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## 373 (Jun 9, 2006)

broken tee said:


> I sometimes feel the starter has a lot to do with slow play. Example; 4some riding, 2some riding, 4some walking, single riding, at some point in this sequence someone is going to wait.


I agree completely. At Calusa, (the course I often mention that is near my house), and which I usually mention in a negative vein with good reason, they do nothing to build foursomes. While they don't allow walkers, what some people do is pay the fee that includes a cart and then when out of sight of the clubhouse, they walk shot to shot. The thing is, they do exactly what you said about letting on a twosome, a foursome, a single, with no effort to turn anything into a group.

I can stop worrying about Calusa now. We've decided not to go back. If I want to play a dog track, I want to pay about 1/2 of what Calusa charges. If the Bicardi family wants to put some money into maintenance, I'll go back someday.

Course condition is the main reason we aren't playing there again, but the nature of what they refuse to do to manage the flow around the course is a big part of it too.


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## Boogaboo (Aug 22, 2009)

[quote dennis m]
Other than poor course maintenance by players, where I see the biggest breakdown is in slow players not letting faster players through. At that nearby course, there are no Rangers, so people sometimes join up into 5-6 person groups and nobody does anything about it. When it happens early in the day, it makes it slow for the rest of the day. There have plenty of times we have skipped a hole to cut in front of a group like that.
[quote dennis m]

That is probably the one that heritate me the most. A course near my house they play often 5-6 per group and they are not course friendly people to be polite. As for the maintenance of the course. I always fir a divot or fill a the fairway even if i didn't damage it. 

keep it up all good threat


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