# What would you do if.....



## Surtees (Sep 11, 2007)

Hey in this thread you read the last post where you are given a set position on the course and explain what you would do, once you've done that give a description of a shot with details of lie, hazard trees, wind and anything else you can think of for the next person to answer.

Ok First one.

About 140m to the pin in the rough with only the top 1/3 of the ball showing above the grass off to the left of the fairway, with a moderate wind blowing from left to right. The green is fairly flat with a bunker to the right side. What would you do?


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## Big Hobbit (Nov 2, 2010)

Surtees said:


> Ok First one.
> 
> About 140m to the pin in the rough with only the top 1/3 of the ball showing above the grass off to the left of the fairway, with a moderate wind blowing from left to right. The green is fairly flat with a bunker to the right side. What would you do?


Hit a 7 iron for the left half of the green. 7 iron is on its limit but it could fly out of that lie. If the club turns over in the grass it will, with the aid of the wind, drift back towards the centre. If it doesn't its sand dancing time.

Damn, its in the bunker.......... next.


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## broken tee (Jan 13, 2008)

for me that would be 5 or 6 iron coming out of the rough and then it would be my luck it rained the night before and the trap is like a lake.

should this fly its a good way to look at course management


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## Surtees (Sep 11, 2007)

Take my sw and a rake into the bunker with me I happy I find its a nice lie and the sand is soft. I take a narrow stance line my club up about 1 & 1/2 inches behind the ball, I take a half swing at it dig down just before the ball and scope it out on the the and its rolling rolling rolling and hits and flag pole and just bounces out and stops a foot from the hole for a nice easy putt(thats a real shot that I have done before although it would be nice to hit the pole everytime out of the sannd...).

Next one 

Long par 3 on the tee box hole its 210 to the pin whichs at the front of a sloping green( slope runs from back to front). There is a water hazard that runs all the way across the front of the green that starts at about 190 from the tee. There are bunkers to both sides of the green. what would you do?


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## broken tee (Jan 13, 2008)

Surtees said:


> Take my sw and a rake into the bunker with me I happy I find its a nice lie and the sand is soft. I take a narrow stance line my club up about 1 & 1/2 inches behind the ball, I take a half swing at it dig down just before the ball and scope it out on the the and its rolling rolling rolling and hits and flag pole and just bounces out and stops a foot from the hole for a nice easy putt(thats a real shot that I have done before although it would be nice to hit the pole everytime out of the sannd...).
> 
> Next one
> 
> Long par 3 on the tee box hole its 210 to the pin whichs at the front of a sloping green( slope runs from back to front). There is a water hazard that runs all the way across the front of the green that starts at about 190 from the tee. There are bunkers to both sides of the green. what would you do?


I hate holes like that, I have a pheobia, lay up short of the water then a short iron to the green hopfully near the pin for par. You"re discribing my challenge at a course here.


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## broken tee (Jan 13, 2008)

Your ball lands in the sand against the edge of the bunker and laying 2?


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## FrogsHair (Mar 4, 2010)

I am choking down a little on my 7 wood. I will aim away from the bunker, and hopefully catch the left side of the green. How much I aim to the left is determined by the wind. Choking down, and the rough will slow my 7 wood down enough to give me the 153 yards I need. I would also probably set up with my club face a tad bit more open, and swing a little more downward than I normally would with this club. Another plus is my 7 wood won't be subject to twisting (slightly open club face) as much, like an iron would should the grass wrapped around the hosel. Been there, and done this many times over the years.


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## FrogsHair (Mar 4, 2010)

Next one 

Long par 3 on the tee box hole its 210 to the pin whichs at the front of a sloping green( slope runs from back to front). There is a water hazard that runs all the way across the front of the green that starts at about 190 from the tee. There are bunkers to both sides of the green. what would you do?[/QUOTE]

I am going with my 5 wood, which should get me over the water hazard with room to spare. As for my aim, hopefully I will already have a decent idea what my ball flights for the day are from previous shots. I might have a longer putt down hill back to the pin, or I might wind up in one of those bunkers. Both are preferable to getting the ball wet.


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## Fourputt (Nov 18, 2006)

Surtees said:


> Hey in this thread you read the last post where you are given a set position on the course and explain what you would do, once you've done that give a description of a shot with details of lie, hazard trees, wind and anything else you can think of for the next person to answer.
> 
> Ok First one.
> 
> About 140m to the pin in the rough with only the top 1/3 of the ball showing above the grass off to the left of the fairway, with a moderate wind blowing from left to right. The green is fairly flat with a bunker to the right side. What would you do?


With 1/3 of the ball showing that isn't going to take any distance off the shot. In fact, with my AP-2 irons I'd probably get a bit of a flier if I make a full swing. I'd definitely have to play for the ball to release, with very little spin. How I plan that depends on where the hole is cut and how firm the greens are. If the hole is near the front, then I play an 8I to land short and hope the bounce and release gets to the green. I'd rather leave a short chip from the front than a long, probably downhill putt from the back of the green. If the hole is cut toward the middle or back, then I probably try to cut a 7I in to the front of the green and let it release toward the hole.


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## Fourputt (Nov 18, 2006)

FrogsHair said:


> Next one
> 
> Long par 3 on the tee box hole its 210 to the pin whichs at the front of a sloping green( slope runs from back to front). There is a water hazard that runs all the way across the front of the green that starts at about 190 from the tee. There are bunkers to both sides of the green. what would you do?


I am going with my 5 wood, which should get me over the water hazard with room to spare. As for my aim, hopefully I will already have a decent idea what my ball flights for the day are from previous shots. I might have a longer putt down hill back to the pin, or I might wind up in one of those bunkers. Both are preferable to getting the ball wet.[/QUOTE]

I most likely hit a 3/4 3W into the water, then hope that the drop is closer to the green so I can clear it on the next shot. The only clubs in my bag that I can be sure of carrying 190 are my driver and 3W, and both would likely airmail the green too on a full swing. I never face that shot, so I don't have a club in the bag for it. :dunno:


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## Fourputt (Nov 18, 2006)

Here's one I see on my favorite mountain course: 8500 feet elevation, 120 yards from the fairway remaining for your 3rd shot on a long difficult par 5. You have an extreme uphill lie, 30 feet uphill to the green so you can just see the top of the flagstick. Hole is cut in the back of the green, just 5 feet behind a 3 foot slope that drops to the lower tier, bunkers left and right. Long here leaves you with a downhill lie in the rough to a downsloping green.

I play a 3/4 8I and hope that I don't over hit it. Anything over the green is a nearly impossible chip that usually rolls all the way to the front of the green.


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## Surtees (Sep 11, 2007)

Fourputt said:


> Here's one I see on my favorite mountain course: 8500 feet elevation, 120 yards from the fairway remaining for your 3rd shot on a long difficult par 5. You have an extreme uphill lie, 30 feet uphill to the green so you can just see the top of the flagstick. Hole is cut in the back of the green, just 5 feet behind a 3 foot slope that drops to the lower tier, bunkers left and right. Long here leaves you with a downhill lie in the rough to a downsloping green.
> 
> I play a 3/4 8I and hope that I don't over hit it. Anything over the green is a nearly impossible chip that usually rolls all the way to the front of the green.


hhhmmm does the elevation affect your ball flight much???? I pretty much always play not that much above sea level.

I would hit a full hit nine and hope that it stops somewhere near the middle of the green. Knowing my game there is a good chance I would end up at a front of the green or in a bunker, but that would be a better spot then behind the green.


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## FrogsHair (Mar 4, 2010)

Are you sure there's also not a tree, or a McDonals in the way?  Well, the extreme up hill lie is going to deloft the club, so I won't use my normal 120 yard club. With only 120 yards, the altitude will have some, but not that much effect on the carry. I am going to go with 2 more clubs, with a choked down grip. The up hill lie will also give the ball an extra high trajectory, so I am basically looking at a longer flop shot, hoping for a drop, and stop ball near, and below the hole. This is a tough shot with so many things going on with it. I know after I finished it, I'd be looking for that cart girl. 



Fourputt said:


> Here's one I see on my favorite mountain course: 8500 feet elevation, 120 yards from the fairway remaining for your 3rd shot on a long difficult par 5. You have an extreme uphill lie, 30 feet uphill to the green so you can just see the top of the flagstick. Hole is cut in the back of the green, just 5 feet behind a 3 foot slope that drops to the lower tier, bunkers left and right. Long here leaves you with a downhill lie in the rough to a downsloping green.
> 
> I play a 3/4 8I and hope that I don't over hit it. Anything over the green is a nearly impossible chip that usually rolls all the way to the front of the green.


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## Big Hobbit (Nov 2, 2010)

120 yds for me is a wedge, then add 2 clubs for the uphill approach. Then I'm stuck... I've never played at a course over 1000ft so I'll hazard a guess and go back to a 9 iron.

My target is middle of the green on any difficult green when playing a full shot - middle will give you a reasonable putt wherever the flag is.

Then its oxygen and a chair... medic, MEDIC!


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## FrogsHair (Mar 4, 2010)

This one actually happened to me, back when I still thought I was bullet proof. After an extremely well hit tee shot to a par 5, I find I have an out side chance of reaching the green in two. With my 3 wood, I give it everything I have, but of course I slice the ball which winds up in a water hazard off to the right of the green. That was was my mistake for being too greedy. Now this water hazard just happens to have a concrete bottom, with about 1/4-3/8 inches of water in it. The ball is sitting on concrete with no mud, or other debris under it. The score lines in the concrete are running north/south towards the pin. It is a lateral water hazard, with the ball crossing the hazard line almost at the pin high area. It is a drainage ditch. My ball is sitting up nicely above the water, pin high, about 50 yards from the pin. Besides the water, other problems are a 25', concrete vertical side wall of the drainage ditch, with another 10' hill to get over after that. If I take the penalty drop, and move the ball out of the hazard, where it crossed the hazard line, I have about a 5' hill to get over to reach the green some 55 yards a way, with a very good lie.

Here's what I did. Since I could get my club on the ball, with a relatively clean (thin) lie, while in the hazard, and loving challenging shots like I do, I elected to hit the ball out of the hazard, and played the lie I had. I was lucky, and hit the ball on to the green, then 1 putted for a birdy. It's one of the best shots I have ever pulled off, and I will always remember it well. My son in laws will remember because I won 3 skins off them with that shot. Yes, something was at stake. 

I don't recommend this shot for a few reasons. #1 The water was pretty filthy. It's a drainage water. Hitting a ball out of that stuff, and getting the water on one's self, may not be to healthy. #2 Possible injury to one's hands, wrists, and/or fore arms, while hitting off such a hard surface. #3 Is possible club damage while hitting off such a hard surface. Club damage was the least of my worries since my irons are backed by an iron clad, no bull fecal matter, 100% free replacement, life time warranty. :thumbsup:


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## broken tee (Jan 13, 2008)

Surtees said:


> hhhmmm does the elevation affect your ball flight much???? I pretty much always play not that much above sea level.
> 
> I would hit a full hit nine and hope that it stops somewhere near the middle of the green. Knowing my game there is a good chance I would end up at a front of the green or in a bunker, but that would be a better spot then behind the green.


I can't speak for Rick and frogshair but in my opinion yes it does. I played a course in Seattle at sea level nice warm day with high humidity 70% +- on shots that may have been a 9 I had to use an 8 or a 9 if a wedge would normally be used by me. Then I played a course in Steamboat Springs,Colo. about 8000' I'm at 4210' here in Salt Lake. I walked the course I was sweating by the 2nd hole gasping for air on the 3rd tee there was a ditch 150 yards out this is a 375 par 4 I couldn't hit past the ditch with the driver didn't realize at that time I had a heart problem.

Played just north of Denver after that and I was flying the ball getting that 50 yards plus I'm looking for at this elevation


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## FrogsHair (Mar 4, 2010)

I did not mean to say elevation has no effect on distance. It does in deed. What I mean is that the shorter the shot, the less effect it will have. All other things being equal, a 120 shot might fly 125, and a 250 yard shot might fly 280. (just throwing numbers out there)I play at 2575' above sea level, and have played in the SLC area, and I don't notice much difference. I have played MT Massive GC in Colorado, and notice my drives and other longer shots seemed longer. What I think does effect distance more than anything else is humidity. Higher humidity will allow the ball to fly farther. Higher humidity mean more moisture in the air, which when compare to oxygen, and nitrogen, which is more dense than moisture, makes the air less dense. Lower air density means less drag on the golf ball. Less drag allows for a greater distance regardless of the altitude.

Just a note. When I played MT Massive which I believe is around 9600+ feet, I really did not pay much attention to my golf game. The views I encountered on that course over whelmed my golf game to such an extent, I just enjoyed them and just went through the motions of my golf game. That is a very pretty golf course. On the flip side I have played Furnace Creek GC many times which is 214' below sea level. It has two temperatures. Pretty warm, and just plain hot.



broken tee said:


> I can't speak for Rick and frogshair but in my opinion yes it does. I played a course in Seattle at sea level nice warm day with high humidity 70% +- on shots that may have been a 9 I had to use an 8 or a 9 if a wedge would normally be used by me. Then I played a course in Steamboat Springs,Colo. about 8000' I'm at 4210' here in Salt Lake. I walked the course I was sweating by the 2nd hole gasping for air on the 3rd tee there was a ditch 150 yards out this is a 375 par 4 I couldn't hit past the ditch with the driver didn't realize at that time I had a heart problem.
> 
> Played just north of Denver after that and I was flying the ball getting that 50 yards plus I'm looking for at this elevation


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## Fourputt (Nov 18, 2006)

Rule of thumb.... the difference between sea level and the mile above sea level here in Denver... you add 10% to what you would expect. If you hit a 9I 130 in Florida, then you'd figure it to go a bit over 140 here. The difference is a bit more at 8000+, but not nearly as much change as from sea level to 5280.


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## Surtees (Sep 11, 2007)

thanks for that!

Next one.
You lie on the edge of a water hazard but still inbounds. It has been rain the last couple of days so the ground where your ball lies is very soft and muddy. Your ball sit half exposed half in the mud, it is about 130yds to the pin. you are on the left side of the green and the green roles left to right with a steep step down in the green about two feet right of the pin. What would you do?

I would play this with a open 9 which prob would make the green with that lie but should just leave me a little up to get on to the green. If I tryed a longer iron I would more then likely shank it. So for this one it a case of play a safe shot that should work rather then going for the pin.


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## Big Hobbit (Nov 2, 2010)

Surtees said:


> thanks for that!
> 
> Next one.
> You lie on the edge of a water hazard but still inbounds. It has been rain the last couple of days so the ground where your ball lies is very soft and muddy. Your ball sit half exposed half in the mud, it is about 130yds to the pin. you are on the left side of the green and the green roles left to right with a steep step down in the green about two feet right of the pin. What would you do?
> ...


Mmmmm.... My first thought on finding my ball stuck in soft ground after rain is to stand as close to the ball as possible without affecting the lie to see if water comes up. If it does then I'd claim relief from casual water, and move to firmer ground. If I have to play it as it lies I'd expect it to come out very heavy, with little spin, and hit an 8 iron. If it made the green I wouldn't expect much spin on it and for it to release up the green. 

As to the step in the green, and the slope, quite frankly I'd be more interested in making the green. I'd worry about the putt if it got there.


And now a tempter. A long par 5, and you're middle of the fairway after your tee shot 220yds from a narrow entrance into the green, 230yds from the flag. A lake eats into the right side of the fairway and green. And there is a bit of a breeze from the left. You have a good card going, and are swinging really well. Do you go for it and risk spoiling the card, or lay up to gap wedge distance guaranteeing no worse than a par?


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## FrogsHair (Mar 4, 2010)

If I have to play it as the ball lies, I am taking a couple of extra clubs, since I am going to have to do some digging to get the ball out, and then hit it the required distance. Accuracy is is going to be a hit, or miss for me with this shot, so I am not going to worry too much about where on the green I need to land the ball.

My Next One; 450 yard, par 4, dog leg left. Due to terrain issues, you can't cut the dog leg. You have to stay in the fairway, or as close as possible. The dog leg starts left 200 yards off the tee. From there it is 250 to the green. For your second shot there is a dry wash full of sand, and rocks that starts at the 200 yard mark, and is 30 yards wide. In other words your second shot needs to fly 230 yards to clear this wash. It is possible to play out of this wash, but should the ball hit one of the numerous rocks in the wash, there is no telling where it might end up. 

For me, my second shot is going to be a lay up, since my chances of puring my 3 wood to clear 230 yards, off the turf is pretty slim. My third shot would be about 50 yards, and hopefully with a one putt, I am walking off that green with a par. 

Now days, this is a pretty common scenario for those of us who are short off the tee, and with our other clubs, when compared to the distances the professionals hit the ball. 



Surtees said:


> thanks for that!
> 
> Next one.
> You lie on the edge of a water hazard but still inbounds. It has been rain the last couple of days so the ground where your ball lies is very soft and muddy. Your ball sit half exposed half in the mud, it is about 130yds to the pin. you are on the left side of the green and the green roles left to right with a steep step down in the green about two feet right of the pin. What would you do?
> ...


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