# Plain Talk on the New Grooves



## Fourputt (Nov 18, 2006)

Here is a video from Cleveland Golf on the groove change. It's about the best explanation I've seen yet. :thumbsup: It's clearly presented with no manufacturer bias. Click on the article titled "USGA Groove Rule Summary".

Click here


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## Surtees (Sep 11, 2007)

how do you find out if your clubs fit the new regs? Because I've only recently brought new clubs and if my local clubs take on this rule I'm not about to buy new clubs again and it could make it hard for me to play match play.


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## Surtees (Sep 11, 2007)

Don't worry I posted that last one while the video was loading. I just watched the video and weekend warriors don't need to change clubs until 2024 so I think I may be due for new clubs by then....


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## Fourputt (Nov 18, 2006)

Surtees said:


> Don't worry I posted that last one while the video was loading. I just watched the video and weekend warriors don't need to change clubs until 2024 so I think I may be due for new clubs by then....


:laugh: Yeah, that is one of the questions being asked most often across the web. If you know the children's story of Chicken Little, the new groove rule is quite reminiscent of that whole "the sky is falling" scenario. Much panic over nothing.


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## broken tee (Jan 13, 2008)

Surtees said:


> Don't worry I posted that last one while the video was loading. I just watched the video and weekend warriors don't need to change clubs until 2024 so I think I may be due for new clubs by then....


I'm glad you watched the video again. your previous post sounded like a nervous break down or an Aussie being forced to drink Fosters oh I'm sure by the time 2024 rolls around every course is going to have groove police.


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## broken tee (Jan 13, 2008)

Fourputt said:


> Here is a video from Cleveland Golf on the groove change. It's about the best explanation I've seen yet. :thumbsup: It's clearly presented with no manufacturer bias. Click on the article titled "USGA Groove Rule Summary".
> 
> Click here


good video, Now one thing,Just to calm our good friend down under, is the USGA world wide or a governing body here in the US of A?


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## Fourputt (Nov 18, 2006)

broken tee said:


> good video, Now one thing,Just to calm our good friend down under, is the USGA world wide or a governing body here in the US of A?


The R&A has adopted the same rule. There are only 2 governing bodies as far as the Rules of Golf are concerned, the USGA and The Royal and Ancient Club of St. Andrews. They meet jointly to decide on changes to the rules, then those rules are applied worldwide. There used to be differences, but that is no longer the case. There are a few decisions that only apply in the US, but they are very specialized situations. If you are curious, go the the very end of Appendix III in the rules section on the USGA website to see those miscellaneous decisions. See it Here


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## broken tee (Jan 13, 2008)

Fourputt said:


> The R&A has adopted the same rule. There are only 2 governing bodies as far as the Rules of Golf are concerned, the USGA and The Royal and Ancient Club of St. Andrews. They meet jointly to decide on changes to the rules, then those rules are applied worldwide. There used to be differences, but that is no longer the case. There are a few decisions that only apply in the US, but they are very specialized situations. If you are curious, go the the very end of Appendix III in the rules section on the USGA website to see those miscellaneous decisions. See it Here


Out of curiosity are you a member of the USGA? I've registered and I'm thinking of being a member I didn't think the USGA had controlling authority outside the boarders


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## Fourputt (Nov 18, 2006)

broken tee said:


> Out of curiosity are you a member of the USGA? I've registered and I'm thinking of being a member I didn't think the USGA had controlling authority outside the boarders


Many countries have their own governing associations, but the Rules are universal. All national and regional golf associations play by the same Rules of Golf as we do. I believe that the USGA is the governing association in the US and Mexico. I know that Canada has it's own governing body.

Yes, I am a member, and I'm attending the 4 day USGA Rules Workshop here in Littleton this February.


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## Surtees (Sep 11, 2007)

Yes Bob I hadn't watched the video before my first post the video was loading my comp was being slow this morning. I agree Rick with most things like this people make a lot of fuss about not a lot look a Bobs last few post did he have a point to any of them?????
Keep swinging


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## broken tee (Jan 13, 2008)

Surtees said:


> Yes Bob I hadn't watched the video before my first post the video was loading my comp was being slow this morning. I agree Rick with most things like this people make a lot of fuss about not a lot look a Bobs last few post did he have a point to any of them?????
> Keep swinging


those posts made perfect sense to me. besides it gives you somthing to talk about on the tee with your mates while I struggle in the frigid high country to keep warm.....oh poor me:laugh:


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## 373 (Jun 9, 2006)

Having no intention to play the tour between now and then, I look at 2024 as the date at which I will have to comply. By then, I will be 74 years old, a point at which I don't think anyone will be too concerned with how competitive I am.

What I found interesting about the video, which made me wonder if it will open a new can of worms, was that the new grooves don't have to be V shaped. I didn't know that. I wonder if down the road, it will be determined that of the new groove designs, one is more effective over the other and whether another rule change will come into effect later on.

I just got two new Vokey wedges to replace my old ones with the very worn faces. One is last years model and one is a new spin milled version. That was a question of availability, not choice, but to the best of my knowledge, both are still square grooves.


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## broken tee (Jan 13, 2008)

Rick, Luke jump in here, I remember one of them saying it was to increase the difficulty factor out of the rough.


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## Surtees (Sep 11, 2007)

yes you are right Bob. The grooves help clear grass/dirt.. away from the club head allowing for a better/easier shot out of the rough where as the new grooves will make it harder to hit out of the rough.


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## broken tee (Jan 13, 2008)

Hey Luke enjoying the summer and how is the studying going


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## 373 (Jun 9, 2006)

There was an English documentary done about 30 years ago. In it, using both people and swing robots, they proved that grooves didn't do anything. That said, I don't know whether square grooves do, other than at the level of a good golfer. Doesn't matter. It is what it is.


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## Fourputt (Nov 18, 2006)

DennisM said:


> There was an English documentary done about 30 years ago. In it, using both people and swing robots, *they proved that grooves didn't do anything*. That said, I don't know whether square grooves do, other than at the level of a good golfer. Doesn't matter. It is what it is.


True from a lie in the fairway. Sensible grooves only assist you in the rough, and then only to a certain degree. One problem is that the groves have gotten ridiculously sharp, so that they DO actually grip the ball, and also shred the cover. Some guys these days think that is what creates the spin, but it's actually the friction between the clubface and the ball. That is why softer urethane covered balls spin better from fairway lies than surlyn covered ones. The cover is just grippier. Do an experiment sometime. Take 2 new urethane balls and rub them together... they allmost feel sticky. Do the same with surlyn covered balls and they ust slip.


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## 373 (Jun 9, 2006)

Fourputt said:


> That is why softer urethane covered balls spin better from fairway lies than surlyn covered ones. The cover is just grippier


What a great word! I love it... Grippier! Titleist should copyright that word immediately.

Yes, the tests 30 years ago were done from fairways and off tees, but also remember, nobody had thought of square grooves yet.


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## broken tee (Jan 13, 2008)

How about the grooves on the woods verses the irons? with out checking are they cut any different and depending on the club is there different numbers of grooves. I'd go look its just to damn cold right now.:dunno:


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## Fourputt (Nov 18, 2006)

broken tee said:


> How about the grooves on the woods verses the irons? with out checking are they cut any different and depending on the club is there different numbers of grooves. I'd go look its just to damn cold right now.:dunno:


The grooves on the woods are primarily cosmetic. Players are used to seeing grooves, so they mostly reject any club which doesn't have them. There are some drivers where the grooves only border the sweet spot. The clubface is actually smooth in the center of the face.


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## 373 (Jun 9, 2006)

Had a funny round yesterday... First 9, couldn't do anything right and shot 43. Back 9, couldn't do anything wrong and shot 37. As I told my buddy Dave, it's much nicer to shoot 80 that way instead of shooting 40/40.

The thing that was weird was, I didn't have any occasion to hit the new wedges until the 15th hole, when I used my 56 degree wedge like a lob wedge. Finally on 17, I got the new 50 degree wedge into the game with a 110 yard shot to the green.

Compared to my old wedges with the badly worn faces, I couldn't tell you whether I saw a different result or not.


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## Surtees (Sep 11, 2007)

Interesting Dennis time for new glasses maybe???? 
Isn't it good when you are having a bad front 9 and you turn it around on the back oh and I wouldnt care how I shot 80 I just be happy to shoot 80 nice work.


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## broken tee (Jan 13, 2008)

DennisM said:


> Had a funny round yesterday... First 9, couldn't do anything right.


You haven't seen Luke play have you...I just can't stop laughing.:laugh:




Had to do it buddy...I'll be waiting


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## Surtees (Sep 11, 2007)

thats fine Bob theres a reason you've got that big camper on your truck you need it to be able to complete a round other wise you'd have to go home after 5 holes because it's hard to see your ball in the dark!


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## broken tee (Jan 13, 2008)

Surtees said:


> thats fine Bob theres a reason you've got that big camper on your truck you need it to be able to complete a round other wise you'd have to go home after 5 holes because it's hard to see your ball in the dark!


I use night vision goggles now


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## 373 (Jun 9, 2006)

Used to be a lighted par 3 course in New Albany, Indiana, across the river from where I grew up in Louisville, Kentucky. We used to play there at night sometimes. It was OK in that the tees and greens were lit, but if you missed a green by much, you had to look for your ball in darkness.

That was definitely before night vision goggles.


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## broken tee (Jan 13, 2008)

DennisM said:


> Used to be a lighted par 3 course in New Albany, Indiana, across the river from where I grew up in Louisville, Kentucky. We used to play there at night sometimes. It was OK in that the tees and greens were lit, but if you missed a green by much, you had to look for your ball in darkness.
> 
> That was definitely before night vision goggles.


I'm going to have to check the area here for a lighted course, but I don't think we have one? Me thinks its in more densely populated states


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