# Sunday Golfing - Bah Humbug



## 65nlovenit (Dec 8, 2006)

Tried to squeeze in a round today. Because I’m playing by myself I check in with the marshal and wait till the foursome in front of me is well under way, hopefully they’ve teed off from number two, before I hit. I play the first hole and walk over to number two, only to find that the foursome is just teeing off. They had to wait for the foursome that’s in front of them. Watching the leading foursome is like watching a pin ball game, their all over the course, mostly in the woods, and of course they’re all helping each other hunt for the lost balls. Eventually they manage to make it to the green and the foursome in front of me tee’s off. What are the chances of finding eight golfers all the same caliber, playing back to back? Well I found them. Of the four I think one guy accidentally hit the fairway. So I figure this is going to be a slow round, but hopefully the foursome in front of me will realize I’m a single and will let me play through. Yeah Sure, no such luck. So I take this opportunity to hit 3 and 4 balls and do some serious practicing. That was great for two holes, till another foursome catches me. They’re not particularly happy about me hitting multiple balls, so I stop. The 5th hole is a long par 5. The 6th is 145 yard par 3. The 7th is another par 5. On the 5th hole as I’m finishing up, I look over and there’s a foursome on the 6th green. Across from them on 7 there’s another foursome just teeing off, and of course there’s the group in front of me. Well with that I’d had course, pick up my ball and walk to the clubhouse. As I near the clubhouse, I can see that number hole 9 is empty, so is 10, and looking across I can see that 11 is empty also. So I jump to 10, believe it or not I never seen another golfer till I got to 17. I think I’ll pass from now on Saturdays and Sundays, leave the course to people who want to play a 5 or 6 hour round of golf.


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## 300Yards (Jan 23, 2007)

I've had similar experiences..being stuck behind people, who shouldn't even be on the course, but at the practice range instead. The ability of the player, doesn't really bother me though, it's more, as you said, the lack of courtesy supoosed to be shown on the course. It's really quite simple: If I'm playing with a buddy or two, and someone who is a single comes up behind us, I will show good etiquette,, and let that single play through. It amazes me how people cannot understand this, surely most basic of all etiquette rules. Especially when look at you, know your there, but continue to hold up play for everyone. Really gets my collar hot.


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## 373 (Jun 9, 2006)

Some of my friends seem to feel I've become a curmudgeon in my old age. I can understand that golfers of every skill level have a right to be on the course, but I also believe every golfer, regardless of skill level, has an obligation to know the courtesies of the game as they are written into the rule book.


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## Topflite_d2 (May 7, 2007)

Welcome to my world. Every Friday I go out and usally do about 27 holes. The first 18 are fine, then as I come back around to do the front nine again there is usally 4 or 5 carts lined up w/ 2 people each. Then usally when I do get to play all the people in front of me are waiting for some people who shouldn't be golfing anyways. All I know is when I grow up and get a job I am going a private course.


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## mkoreiwo (Jan 8, 2007)

Wow! I had just about the same experience on Saturday afternoon! I figured around 4pm I could get out.... And I did, right away. I play 1 and two and as i approach 3, I see a foursome on the tee box... No one has teed off yet. Do ya think that they offered to let me play through - absolutely not. And like your group, they were all over the place. I had to wait every hole through the 9th. It really did effect my game.

So I get to the par 3 10th and nobody is on the green or in the fairway and I think - "great I'm clear". But when I get to the tee box, I can see a twosome hitting from the forward tees... I let them go, but after two shots to the green, they're looking for their balls.... I tee off an put it just off the green. When i get there I see it's two of the foursome I followed!!!

Now.... they could have offered to have me join them, or again, to play through, as they were still on the green when I got there. Nope. So there goes my 18. I almost picked up by the 13th and quit.

And golf isn't frustrating enough!


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## Fourputt (Nov 18, 2006)

Actually, until a very few years ago, by the Rules of Golf a single had no standing on the golf course. That was because the amateur game was designed around match play formats, and a single, by definition can't play a match. That clause since has been dropped from the rules, but for a single playing alone to simply feel that he has the *right* to play through any foursome can be quite selfish too. I understand wanting to play through one foursome to get in the clear, but I've also been hassled by singles who feel that it's their right to play through 5 or 6 foursomes, and that is a s selfish as you can get. The single golfer needs to explore his own options too. On a busy course, a single attempting to play through several foursomes can become a one man road block as far as destroying the flow of play around the course for everyone else. Why should a dozen other players have to stand around and wait while HE plays through? What makes HIM so special? 

Why not just play a second ball? Practice your putting and chipping between holes. Accept that as a single you are the *exception* rather than the rule, and you are going to have lots of times when you are NOT going to get your way. Maybe you need to find some friends to play with, so that you aren't always alone on the course. I play alone, but I do so rarely... not usually even possible on my home course, which is a busy public facility. I play in groups of 2, 3 or 4 golfers, and we adjust our play as needed to deal with the situation. I accept that when I'm playing in a short group, waiting is going to be part of the round. We play chipping games on the tee box when waiting to start a hole, shoot the breeze, swing each other's clubs, etc. Golf is supposed to be a game of patience, and that includes being patient with other players.  

To tell the truth, I'd rather have to wait occasionally than be rushed around the course by a pushy ranger. That will ruin my game faster than anything else I can think of. :thumbsdown: 

BTW, don't get the idea that I'm typically a slow player from this post. I've played 18 holes in 3:45 as part of a fivesome.... and we were waiting on 2 threesomes in front of us for the last 4 holes.


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## 65nlovenit (Dec 8, 2006)

I guess you missed part of my posting FourPutt, when I realized that the foursome was not going to let me play through, and that there was another foursome in front of them, I did play 2 and 3 balls. The problem arose because of the slow play, another foursome caught up with me and did not appreciate my hitting more then one ball, so rather then get embroiled in a shouting match I hit one ball (though now that I think about it, if four can hold up one, then one should be allowed to hold up four). I can appreciate your standing on single players, there is no hard and fast rule that says singles will be allowed to play through, that has just come to be as an unwritten courtesy to golf etiquette. As far as finding friends to play with, why should I have to go round up four friends just so we can all wait on the group ahead. Most of my friends would go fruit loop watching and waiting for the groups that were in front of me, they’re really not much into playing tee box games to pass the time. We all have been in these scenarios, brain dead people playing croquet and speedy gonzalis trying to set the course record for rapid play. At least the speedy guy I can deal with, I LET HIM PLAY THROUGH.


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## Fourputt (Nov 18, 2006)

65nlovenit said:


> I guess you missed part of my posting FourPutt, when I realized that the foursome was not going to let me play through, and that there was another foursome in front of them, I did play 2 and 3 balls. The problem arose because of the slow play, another foursome caught up with me and did not appreciate my hitting more then one ball, so rather then get embroiled in a shouting match I hit one ball (though now that I think about it, if four can hold up one, then one should be allowed to hold up four). I can appreciate your standing on single players, there is no hard and fast rule that says singles will be allowed to play through, that has just come to be as an unwritten courtesy to golf etiquette. As far as finding friends to play with, why should I have to go round up four friends just so we can all wait on the group ahead. Most of my friends would go fruit loop watching and waiting for the groups that were in front of me, they’re really not much into playing tee box games to pass the time. We all have been in these scenarios, brain dead people playing croquet and speedy gonzalis trying to set the course record for rapid play. At least the speedy guy I can deal with, I LET HIM PLAY THROUGH.


My post was made as general comment, not aimed at you... sorry if it came off that way. I play most of my golf on a very busy public course... a typical year is more than 115,000 paid rounds (in a climate where we have winter  ). The option of playing alone is a rare occurrence, and the course is usually loaded up enough that when you do have that very rare solo tee time, playing through is simply not a viable option. Most of the time, a single is going to be grouped up with 2 or 3 other players and they will play together. Whether you play with friends, or play with strangers, you WILL almost always be playing with someone. The good thing is that you meet a lot of like minded people that way. :thumbsup: 

So that is where I was coming from when I posted my views on this subject. Around the Denver area golf is very popular and we have a lot of very good public courses, so you either develop a good deal of patience, or you try to find another activity to pass the time.


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## Foster4 (May 2, 2007)

yea i don't play much on sat's and sundays cuz its more expensive but yea i hate playing slow especially when its wide open in front of them and they won't let me pass ...it turns into a game where i try to shoot the best i can w/o hitting anyone till they let me pass...once i passed 3 groups in a 2 hole stretch lol ...i was sick of it after about 11 holes


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## beachbuzzard (Jun 14, 2007)

I understand that if there is a backup that extends more than a couple of groups, there is little sense in letting the single through. My feeling as a single is that if there is a group ahead of me and they are not up on the group ahead of them, they should let me play through... so I stay right up on them until they let me (although sometimes I'm up on a group the whole day and they never let me through). When they don't ask I don't demand, although it does make me a little crazy. It is in this particular situation that I feel they are wrong by not letting a fast group through. If they are up on the group ahead of them then I just do as Fourputt mentioned... I practice putting and chipping. 

I play often as a single because many of my friends aren't golfers. I don't let the fact that I don't have too many golfer friends stop me from going out solo. I just go. And yes, many times I'm paired up with others from the start... especially in the morning. But later in the day it isn't unusual to go out alone... and it is then that I run into these type situations.


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## Golfbum (Oct 14, 2006)

I play weekends and I play early. Tee off at 7:30 AM at my home course which offers memberships and has green fee players as well. We are normally done our round, a 3 some in 3 1/2 hours, 4 at the most if there are a few groups ahead of us.

You guys need to play early, you beat the heat, you beat the casual golfers who do not care about people behind them. 

Another thing, do not blame high scoring golfers for slow play. I quite often play with two guys who are high scorers (90's-100) and we still play quickly. Last Friday two of us played 18 holes in 3 hours and my playing partner shot 113. So using that excuse doesn't always cut it. Nor does the excuse "We had a 4 some of women ahead of us" But that is another topic.


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## Golfbum (Oct 14, 2006)

Topflite_d2 said:


> Welcome to my world. Every Friday I go out and usally do about 27 holes. The first 18 are fine, then as I come back around to do the front nine again there is usally 4 or 5 carts lined up w/ 2 people each. Then usally when I do get to play all the people in front of me are waiting for some people who shouldn't be golfing anyways. All I know is when I grow up and get a job I am going a private course.


Do you not think there are booked tee times at a private course? I know for a fact there is, I work in the Back Shop at a private course and know exactly what the tee sheet looks like during the week. I pull the members clubs, and trust me you will have the same issues at a private course.

People want to play golf, plain and simple. At a lot of courses being a single does not give you any more rights than the foursome ahead of you.

Management looks at it this way. You booked a tee time, show up alone. They just lost the revenue of 3 other green fee players because you are alone. That is revenue they can not recover. Be Thankful the course you play lets you play alone on a busy day. Most will not allow that to happen, they'll put you in with a group of 2 or 3.


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## mkoreiwo (Jan 8, 2007)

I agree that on many courses a single will be paired up. But if there is no one there at the time, our public courses will send you out. A single pays the same fees as anyone else, and I don't think you should be considered any less than a foursome - provided you do not hold up play!

With regards to playing through, if you can play through to an open course, I think you should be let through, and if I'm in a 3 or foursome, we always offer when we can. But if the course is not going to offer any benefit to doing so, we hold our relative positions. In my recent case, I believe I should have been let through, or at the least, asked.


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## blue3715 (Aug 29, 2006)

says the guy who retired at 51...


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## Fourputt (Nov 18, 2006)

mkoreiwo said:


> I agree that on many courses a single will be paired up. But if there is no one there at the time, our public courses will send you out. A single pays the same fees as anyone else, and I don't think you should be considered any less than a foursome - provided you do not hold up play!
> 
> With regards to playing through, if you can play through to an open course, I think you should be let through, and if I'm in a 3 or foursome, we always offer when we can. But if the course is not going to offer any benefit to doing so, we hold our relative positions. In my recent case, I believe I should have been let through, or at the least, asked.


If I'm in a threesome or twosome and a single plays up behind us, he will be invited to join our group, but almost never will he play through...again because the course is unlikely to be very open ahead of us. I played 14 holes alone earlier this year following a foursome (with other foursomes ahead of them). They offered to let me play through, but as there was no place to go, I declined. After I finished #14, they were still on the 15th tee waiting, so I actually joined up with them and we finished as a fivesome... and still waited (briefly) on every shot for the last 4 holes.

Sometimes you just have to be creative...


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## 65nlovenit (Dec 8, 2006)

You know the really sad part, there’s room for blame with the whole system. Golf courses are in business to make money, but stuffing as many people as humanly possible onto a given amount of real estate, is going to make them money but sure take the enjoyment out of a round of golf. The golf course should be controlling play, putting a marshal in a cart to keep an eye on situations and straightening them out before it becomes a major issue. They should be posting course rules of play, and have a tee off marshal making people aware of them. The other side of the coin is golfer’s themselves, I don’t know of any organized sport where you’d even be allowed to play if you didn’t know the rules, yet if you watch a weekend golf course its obvious that there are large numbers of so called golfers who don’t have an inkling about golf etiquette. I think we’ve got to take our golf buddies, playing partners, and friends aside and whisper some words of wisdom in their ears. We can’t control golf courses, but maybe we can ENLIGHTEN the people who play there.


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## Golfbum (Oct 14, 2006)

blue3715 said:


> says the guy who retired at 51...


OK so your point about me being retired at age 51 is?  What does my retirement age have to do with playing through, or being paired up with a 2some or 3some?
Please, make your point more clearly.
I am sure others would like to hear your valuable opinion


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## Fourputt (Nov 18, 2006)

Golfbum said:


> OK so your point about me being retired at age 51 is?  What does my retirement age have to do with playing through, or being paired up with a 2some or 3some?
> Please, make your point more clearly.
> I am sure others would like to hear your valuable opinion


I kinda wondered what his point was too..... from the guy who retired at 60... :dunno:


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## Topflite_d2 (May 7, 2007)

Golfbum said:


> Do you not think there are booked tee times at a private course? I know for a fact there is, I work in the Back Shop at a private course and know exactly what the tee sheet looks like during the week. I pull the members clubs, and trust me you will have the same issues at a private course.
> 
> People want to play golf, plain and simple. At a lot of courses being a single does not give you any more rights than the foursome ahead of you.
> 
> Management looks at it this way. You booked a tee time, show up alone. They just lost the revenue of 3 other green fee players because you are alone. That is revenue they can not recover. Be Thankful the course you play lets you play alone on a busy day. Most will not allow that to happen, they'll put you in with a group of 2 or 3.


Well usually on a busy day I do join up w/ a few other players. But I don't think that Singles play any slower than foursomes really I think they play faster. But I do see ur point because then there is one less player.


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## Jamin21 (Jun 7, 2007)

When I play golf with my family we tend to be the group hitting balls all over the course. Be we always let faster groups play through us no matter what size they are. We just always try to be considerate of others. But I have also come across the situation where I have been playing solo and caught slower groups. Mostly I get the offer to play through without even asking. But for the occasions that the offer never arises after a few holes, I will just casually and very politely ask the group ahead if the mind me playing through. I will make sure I casually point out that I'm alone and leave the rest up to them. In doing so, I'm really putting the onus on them to make a very cruel decision in fornt of their group. Not deliberately, but that is the by-product of the way I approach them. If they deny me, I politely accept their decision and start looking at the course map for the earliest chance to skip a hole or 2 and jump in front of them.


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## beachbuzzard (Jun 14, 2007)

I just had this situation occur to me the other day while playing with my son. We got paired up with another father/son duo that was waiting on the first tee when we arrived. My son is a decent golfer (90s).... his was a newer player. We were able to stay with the group ahead of us with no problem as they weren't very good either.

A single got up behind us on the 2nd hole, and I mentioned to the other father we should let him play through. He refused and wouldn't allow it. The guy played up on us through 4 holes, then he approached the other father as we waited on the 5th tee box. When he told him no because there was no where to go, I just shrugged at him (the single). I had no control of the situation... I had already recommended to the other father it was the polite thing to do, but he wouldn't hear of it.

To be honest it made me uncomfortable having that single waiting behind us... I've been that single and I don't like it. Kind of ruined my round out there because I was paired with this other father that was being a jerk.


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## 65nlovenit (Dec 8, 2006)

Sometimes when your a single you get the feeling the whole world is Ping on you. Our club has a two for one on tuesdays, and today everybody who owns a set of clubs decided to take advantage of the bargain, to the point that the marshal would not even let singles out today. Fortunately our club put in an exec-par 3 last summer, so to keep the marshal happy I took the oportunity to work on my short game, actually it was kinda fun, and pointed out some things I got to work on.


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## indiginit (Jun 13, 2007)

this year, i've been going to the course as a single about 3/4 of the time so this is a reoccuring issue in my golf life.

ideally i try to join someone(s) while waiting for the first tee. i usually walk because i like the exercise and reduced cost, an i've found my pace walking is nearly exactly that of a two-some in a cart, so thats what i look for in playing with strangers on busy course days. if i cant find anyone to play with on weekend afternoons, though, i usually look for something else to do. or go out later in the day. 

its hard to play as a single. i hate to say it, but older members are the worst as a group (i'm 30). they are often the ones that will not invite me to play through, or worse yet, skip ahead of me and make me wait... i almost hit someone last week because i thought they were a hole behind me! now i keep my eyes open for personalized carts with grey hair racing along the treelines. member rights do not extend this far in my book (non-private courses)... but thats another topic. nevermind.

please, nobody take any personal offense to the 'older golfer' comment, but i have alot of experience playing as a single... figured it was a good way to get it off my chest, so to speak.

not many of my friends golf, or like to play as much as i do. a few of them are good for a round a week or so, but thats not enough for me.

while i accept that a single does not have the RIGHT to play through, its frusterating when you know theres open course in front and you can hit the ball much further than the foursome's tee-shot landing zone. theres no worse feeling than hitting a blind tee shot only to find that you didn't wait long enough. (then theres OFTEN NO CHANCE they will let you play through then... out of deserved spite, i think)

my favorite tactic is waiting for someone behind me on the next tee IF i don't get a play-through invite to an open course. it gives me an opportunity to judge the group behind me and invite them to join me. at least they will know i made an effort to pace the course if they decide they want to stay behind me. the wait and conversation usually gives me a hole or two of clear sailing if the group behind declines.


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## Fourputt (Nov 18, 2006)

beachbuzzard said:


> I just had this situation occur to me the other day while playing with my son. We got paired up with another father/son duo that was waiting on the first tee when we arrived. My son is a decent golfer (90s).... his was a newer player. We were able to stay with the group ahead of us with no problem as they weren't very good either.
> 
> A single got up behind us on the 2nd hole, and I mentioned to the other father we should let him play through. He refused and wouldn't allow it. The guy played up on us through 4 holes, then he approached the other father as we waited on the 5th tee box. When he told him no because there was no where to go, I just shrugged at him (the single). I had no control of the situation... I had already recommended to the other father it was the polite thing to do, but he wouldn't hear of it.
> 
> To be honest it made me uncomfortable having that single waiting behind us... I've been that single and I don't like it. Kind of ruined my round out there because I was paired with this other father that was being a jerk.


I'm a bit puzzled... you just said that the course was clogged up in front of you, then you are bothered by the other guy not wanting a single to play through. If he plays through, all it accomplishes is that you are waiting on him instead of him waiting on you. He's still going to be waiting on the group that's currently ahead of you, so what have you really solved? When the course is busy and you come out as a single, you take your chances. Either you get paired up with a random group, or you wait a lot. :dunno: 

I, too, have been that single, and I wouldn't expect to play through in that situation, nor am I going to let a single play through when there is no place to go. That way you are giving the single player the right to slow everyone else down as HE plays through group after group. Why should HE have that advantage? :dunno:


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## beachbuzzard (Jun 14, 2007)

Fourputt said:


> I'm a bit puzzled... you just said that the course was clogged up in front of you, then you are bothered by the other guy not wanting a single to play through. If he plays through, all it accomplishes is that you are waiting on him instead of him waiting on you. He's still going to be waiting on the group that's currently ahead of you, so what have you really solved? When the course is busy and you come out as a single, you take your chances. Either you get paired up with a random group, or you wait a lot. :dunno:
> 
> I, too, have been that single, and I wouldn't expect to play through in that situation, nor am I going to let a single play through when there is no place to go. That way you are giving the single player the right to slow everyone else down as HE plays through group after group. Why should HE have that advantage? :dunno:


I understand what you're saying, but I don't know if there may or may not have been clear sailing out ahead of the group in front of us. And nothing from nothing, but I get bothered when a guy is just standing there, hole after hole, waiting behind me. No, he has no more rights than anyone else. I know that. But I'd still rather let him through (for the few minutes it costs me) and let him maybe hit some open course out there somewhere.


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## Fourputt (Nov 18, 2006)

beachbuzzard said:


> I understand what you're saying, but I don't know if there may or may not have been clear sailing out ahead of the group in front of us. And nothing from nothing, but I get bothered when a guy is just standing there, hole after hole, waiting behind me. No, he has no more rights than anyone else. I know that. But I'd still rather let him through (for the few minutes it costs me) and let him maybe hit some open course out there somewhere.


My course, I can usually tell whether or not there is open space 2 or 3 groups ahead, and I would base my decision on that. If he has to play through 3 or 4 or more foursomes to get clear, then I'm not inclined to let him through. If he asks I'll explain why, but I stand by my feeling that if the course is busy and he comes out as a single, he takes the hand he gets dealt. 

Along this same train of thought, I got an email from my brother the other day. He was playing as a single, shot 83, and would likely have shot better except the the group in front of him insisted that he play through them. In trying to get ahead of them, he got a bit rushed (maybe unconsciously), took a triple on the hole, and that was the only bad hole in his round. Had they just let him hang back where had been for the last 4 holes, he may or may not have broken 80, but he would likely have been at least been a couple of strokes lower. I realize that the situation is slightly different, as my brother wasn't asking to play through, but they wouldn't take "no" for an answer.


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