# lets talk wedges again



## broken tee

I'm looking at a 55 and 60 degree loft wedges at golf galaxy. they are wilson brand. I used the two wedges,different brands, this evening and I must say I saw remarkable results getting that white orb near the hole much better than the sand wedge or pitching wedge. does it really matter on the brand name. I have to be smart in these matters. ya see; momma gets mad at me when I want to buy new toys she has the purse strings. I'm olny the boss, as I've said before, when she lets me.


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## Surtees

Frist up congrats on making the 1000 th thread.I'm looking at this at the moment too. I figure the boss said I cant get new irons yet but if I get some nice wedgees that could help with my short game. I like the idea of being able to put abit more controlable spin on to the ball.


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## Topflite_d2

Hey broken tee, to answer some of your questions. Brand doesn't really matter, I play Wilson irons and they are great. Its really on how much spin you want because wedges grooves are cut in different ways. Plus it is all in what you wanna spend too, Cleveland, Titleist, and Taylor Made wedges are around $100 a piece which is probably too expensive for most people.


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## skeener

Times like these I am thankful for not having a ring on my finger.
There was this one time though that a girlfriend nagged me to death about me going and paying $50 for a round of golf because she said I needed to save up to buy her a ring.. she is now my ex.

I had got a Titleist Vokey for my birthday from my father and I like it ok.. I still only use it about twice in 18 holes though. I do get more back spin out of it and it just feels a whole lot better than this wal-mart 56 degree I had.


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## broken tee

skeener said:


> Times like these I am thankful for not having a ring on my finger.
> There was this one time though that a girlfriend nagged me to death about me going and paying $50 for a round of golf because she said I needed to save up to buy her a ring.. she is now my ex.
> 
> I had got a Titleist Vokey for my birthday from my father and I like it ok.. I still only use it about twice in 18 holes though. I do get more back spin out of it and it just feels a whole lot better than this wal-mart 56 degree I had.


This has to be the same one that got mad at you for too much barley pop when she went with you on course...so get at least one than huh?


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## skeener

broken tee said:


> This has to be the same one that got mad at you for too much barley pop when she went with you on course...so get at least one than huh?


No its a different one. This one actually went out and bought a wedding dress after we were together for only a month.. She was CRAZY!!

The way I see it is for 99.9% of people golf never pays for itself so since you are spending the money you might as well go all out.


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## broken tee

skeener said:


> No its a different one. This one actually went out and bought a wedding dress after we were together for only a month.. She was CRAZY!!
> 
> The way I see it is for 99.9% of people golf never pays for itself so since you are spending the money you might as well go all out.


Golf does pay for itself: I'm at peace with nature I only swear at myself not my fellow man. I don't worry about illegal lane changes on the fairway just have to be careful not to hit a canada goose or not to step or splatter goose poo all over yourself, its great mental thearapy that sooths the soul. So I don't *&^% someone up that rightly deserves it.


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## 373

broken tee said:


> just have to be careful not to hit a canada goose or not to step or splatter goose poo all over yourself


That is UNDOUBTEDLY the best reason I have ever heard to own a rain suit.

We have this odd water fowl around here called a coot. As near as I can tell, they defy the laws of nature by not participating in the food chain, but by excessively participating in the poop chain. I think you get a two stroke discount if you hit one with the cart.


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## skeener

At the course that I play on hole number 3 you have to hit over a pond and then drive on a bridge to go to the green. Right by the brige is where this one goose always sits and then when you pass on the cart that goose will put its head down and start chasing after you. It bites pretty hard too.


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## broken tee

skeener said:


> At the course that I play on hole number 3 you have to hit over a pond and then drive on a bridge to go to the green. Right by the brige is where this one goose always sits and then when you pass on the cart that goose will put its head down and start chasing after you. It bites pretty hard too.


Have they caused any damage to the course? They are wintering here now with some ponds (circulating water) being ice free in the winter and they have learned two legged creatures with sticks won't harm them. the only way to get a birdie for me is to hit one


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## skeener

broken tee said:


> Have they caused any damage to the course? They are wintering here now with some ponds (circulating water) being ice free in the winter and they have learned two legged creatures with sticks won't harm them. the only way to get a birdie for me is to hit one


Well just defecating all over that one whole is all.
I always carry an old 2 wood with me thats from the 70's and I always try and hit that goose with it as I drive by.


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## Surtees

skeener said:


> Well just defecating all over that one whole is all.
> I always carry an old 2 wood with me thats from the 70's and I always try and hit that goose with it as I drive by.


:laugh: thats funny maybe not that humain but funny. You also have to rememeber to look on the bright side for that gooses poop help to keep the course green by ferterlising (I think thats how you spell it) it.


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## 373

OK, enough about goose poop and let's get back to talking about wedges.

What I want to know is how different identically designed wedges can be with just a different name on it. Let's be honest, you could buy a Titleist Vokay, a variety of Callaway wedges, a few different Cleveland styles, or any of a dozen other brands of wedge and they would all look the same, a fat teardrop shaped blade with an extended flange and some degree of loft and bounce. I'd guess the most common among them might be 56 degrees loft and 10 degrees bounce. Can you say, "generic?"

In a blindfold test, (provided you could hit the ball blindfolded), how much difference can there be?

I'm looking for some magical lob wedge, not that I've been able to hit anything between 58 and 60 degrees adequately before, (read: didn't pratice enough), so is it worth spending money for a Vokay, or should I save money and buy what's on sale?


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## Surtees

DennisM said:


> OK, enough about goose poop and let's get back to talking about wedges.
> 
> What I want to know is how different identically designed wedges can be with just a different name on it. Let's be honest, you could buy a Titleist Vokay, a variety of Callaway wedges, a few different Cleveland styles, or any of a dozen other brands of wedge and they would all look the same, a fat teardrop shaped blade with an extended flange and some degree of loft and bounce. I'd guess the most common among them might be 56 degrees loft and 10 degrees bounce. Can you say, "generic?"
> 
> In a blindfold test, (provided you could hit the ball blindfolded), how much difference can there be?
> 
> I'm looking for some magical lob wedge, not that I've been able to hit anything between 58 and 60 degrees adequately before, (read: didn't pratice enough), so is it worth spending money for a Vokay, or should I save money and buy what's on sale?



Hitting blindfolded I like to see that. I'm looking around at club at the moment and I agree a lot of wedges do look the same and feel pretty similar to swing. So is there much different between the big name ones and cheaper ones that look pretty much the same??


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## broken tee

DennisM said:


> OK, enough about goose poop and let's get back to talking about wedges.
> 
> What I want to know is how different identically designed wedges can be with just a different name on it. Let's be honest, you could buy a Titleist Vokay, a variety of Callaway wedges, a few different Cleveland styles, or any of a dozen other brands of wedge and they would all look the same, a fat teardrop shaped blade with an extended flange and some degree of loft and bounce. I'd guess the most common among them might be 56 degrees loft and 10 degrees bounce. Can you say, "generic?"
> 
> 
> In a blindfold test, (provided you could hit the ball blindfolded), how much difference can there be?
> 
> I'm looking for some magical lob wedge, not that I've been able to hit anything between 58 and 60 degrees adequately before, (read: didn't pratice enough), so is it worth spending money for a Vokay, or should I save money and buy what's on sale?


To see me chip spectators would use blindfolds, but I just happen to have tried a 55 and a 60 I personnally didn't see a difference. it took a few practice shots or flubs to get the feel of the clubsDo what you told abraham on the clubs he's looking at if it feels good get it.

Do you think I should put my face on here so surtee and skeener can see what a fat old man I am?


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## Topflite_d2

Hey Bob I have a Taylormade RAC 60° that I don't get along with too well that I might want to get rid of. I want to play at least one more round and see if I can get used to it or if it has to go down the road. Its pretty much new, I'd put a new grip on it if you wanted it.


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## broken tee

Topflite_d2 said:


> Hey Bob I have a Taylormade RAC 60° that I don't get along with too well that I might want to get rid of. I want to play at least one more round and see if I can get used to it or if it has to go down the road. Its pretty much new, I'd put a new grip on it if you wanted it.


It is not an easy club to hit, IMHO, So hit some to make sure. One of my coaches just loves the 60 for the bunker shots to reach an elevated green. I'm questioning my rationale for increasing my wedge arsonal; I can't answer why I need them and on the other hand there might be a time, I've been married too long can't make my own decisions....honeeey what should I do?


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## 373

OK - I broke down tonight and bought 2 Vokey Tour Chrome wedges, a 50 degree and a 56 degree. I'm hoping the 56 degree wedge will be useful as a sand wedge, but also have enough loft to pull lob wedge duty. Being that I have never gotten comfortable with a 58 degree or 60 degree wedge, I don't expect miracles, but maybe the effort required to move the ball some distance will fit this loft better than previous tests. Kudos to the guys at Golfsmith who were priced $10 more than other places and reduced the price for me to match the others.


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## cbwheeler

Your wedges are your most important clubs. DO NOT go cheap on wedges. You'll do the majority of your scoring with them and your putter. If you go cheap on wedges you are going to be at a much larger disadvantage than going cheap anywhere else.

I'm dead serious when I say this. Get really good quality wedges over anything else, even a driver.

There is a whole chapter in my book devoted to this.


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## cbwheeler

Also, there are different uses for each wedge. For instance, a gap wedge is for lower running chip shots, a sand wedge is for escaping from the sand (because of how much bounce it has), and a lob wedge is good for tricky situations like pitching and chipping to a hole that is cut close to the edge, landing a ball softly, or hacking out of thick rough.

The difference in wedges isn't about ball flight, it's about ball spin. One wedge can look the same as another and perform completely differently. You have to get right down to microscopic levels and see how the grooves are manufactured. Titleist Vokey wedges and TaylorMade RAC wedges have machine milled grooves that have really amazing staying power, which hold up over time. They also spin the living crap out of the ball because they have really high friction faces Friction is what generates spin in a wedge. And spin is exactly what you want in a wedge.

A knockoff wedge is cheaply made and is going to have a bunch of imperfections in the grooves, which causes erratic spin. Most of these cheaply made wedges also have no friction at all on the face. If you can run your finger across the face of the club without it feeling a little rough, it isn't going to get a lot of spin on the ball.

To really accel at the short game, you need good wedges that can channel away tough grass and get some good spin on the ball. Otherwise you are just tossing bullets at the green that will roll off the other side.

DO NOT go cheap on wedges.


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## 373

Uh Cody - Check my post above yours...


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## cbwheeler

Yea those are good choices. I hope you got the spin milled Vokeys. You probably did.

I wanted to post that for anyone else who decided to read.


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## Surtees

cbwheeler said:


> Your wedges are your most important clubs. DO NOT go cheap on wedges. You'll do the majority of your scoring with them and your putter. If you go cheap on wedges you are going to be at a much larger disadvantage than going cheap anywhere else.
> 
> I'm dead serious when I say this. Get really good quality wedges over anything else, even a driver.
> 
> There is a whole chapter in my book devoted to this.


What about the cheaper brand ones that look identical to the bigger brand ones. I may show that I'm still learning the game here but I know that with tool alot of the big name compony sell the same tools under different names and for different prices. Is golf the same I look at some clubs and I can't tell the difference between them


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## cbwheeler

No golf isn't the same there. There are a lot of knockoff clubs that look the same, but rest assured they are not made in the same factory with different branding.

In terms of wedges, the difference between the look alikes and the real things are the grooves and the face. You can't tell just by looking at the grooves. You can tell by running your finger across the face if it is tacky enough to impart spin on a ball, but you can't tell how good the grooves are unless you have a really good eye or you have a microscope.

Grooves are all about how they hold up, how wide they are, and how well they channel away dirt and grass to get spin on the ball. The best brands do this the best. That's why they are so expensive.

Look for good brands on ebay. You can get a deal on Titleist spin milled vokeys and Taylor Made RAC TPs right now. About half off retail.

Also, always keep the grooves on your wedges clean of debris. Your ability to get through grass and debris comes from the grooves. If there is grass and debris in the grooves, you're SOL.


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## Surtees

thanks for that it is interesting to know. I always clean all my club after a round to keep all the groove clean.


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## broken tee

cbwheeler said:


> No golf isn't the same there.
> 
> Uh Cb can you clarify this for me, because if I go to Austrailia I need to learn their game of golf Because I'm just getting use to this game here in the states.:dunno:


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## Surtees

broken tee said:


> cbwheeler said:
> 
> 
> 
> No golf isn't the same there.
> 
> Uh Cb can you clarify this for me, because if I go to Austrailia I need to learn their game of golf Because I'm just get use to this game here in the states.:dunno:
> 
> 
> 
> I think what cb meant there Bob was that golf clubs aren't the same as tools where one big company will make the same tool and sell it with different brand names and for different prices. Where CB meant that club manufactors don't do this. Correct me if I'm wrong CB.
Click to expand...


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## broken tee

I know...I'm just being a horses Butt:laugh:


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## Surtees

sorry I'm a bit slow today I didn't pick up on that.


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## TGOH

Well, as long as we're talking wedges, I might as well get some input.

I currently have a Nike forged 60*, to go along with my two Taylormade RACs. Now, I like the club, but, the face and grooves are worn down to the point where the ball will barely spin off of it. I can get a small amount of check on full swings, but not nearly as much as I'd like. On chips and pitches it just rolls out. This, of course, isn't what I want my ball to do on short shots. 

So, my question is, should I see if I can get the club regrooved, or should I just splurge and buy a new wedge? I like my Nike, but lately it's been staying in the bag and I feel like I could use that space better.


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## broken tee

What is the cost of re-grooving verses buying the one you like?


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## cbwheeler

Well I have a groove sharpener and it works ok, but it can never get the grooves as precise as they are from the manufacturer. There are going to be defects with a groove sharpener.

This is why tour players get new wedges every month (of course they play and practice hours on end daily)


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## TGOH

Currently it's looking like it'll be a week or two and 40-50 bucks, without shipping, to get the wedge refinished. As opposed to about 100-110 for a new one.


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## broken tee

TGOH said:


> Currently it's looking like it'll be a week or two and 40-50 bucks, without shipping, to get the wedge refinished. As opposed to about 100-110 for a new one.


That is not bad in my opinion


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## broken tee

cbwheeler said:


> Well I have a groove sharpener and it works ok, but it can never get the grooves as precise as they are from the manufacturer. There are going to be defects with a groove sharpener.
> 
> This is why tour players get new wedges every month (of course they play and practice hours on end daily)


How bad of a defect and is the sharpener expensive?


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## Topflite_d2

There is different types of sharpeners. Here you find the club medic which isn't rated very good and I've read that they just plain suck. But if you look on the right side it shows one with a screwdriver type handle that one would probably work the best. I figure we are all just hacks (no offense to anyone) so just sharpening grooves would probably be a heck of a lot cheaper in the long run compared to buying a new wedge every 6-12 months.
Golfsmith.com: Assorted Club Medic Groove Sharpener And Cleaner - Assorted
***Edit Heres the link just in case it doesn't show up like I stated above
Golfsmith.com: Golfsmith Deluxe Scoreline Regrooving Tool - Golfsmith


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## cbwheeler

I use a sharpener from groovesharpener.com. It's $20 or so on ebay. It worked pretty well the few times I used it on my Cleveland wedges. It's just a handheld thing so obviously it's not going to be anything a machine could produce. I don't know if I'll use it on the new Taylor Made RAC TP wedges or not.


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## chipomatic

Anybody hit the Bobby Jones wedges yet? If so, what'd you think?


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## 373

I just got my new Vokey Tour wedges today, a 50 degree and a 56 degree. I can't wait for the weekend now. One thing was odd though. They came with different grips on them. One had rubber and the other had cord.


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## broken tee

DennisM said:


> I just got my new Vokey Tour wedges today, a 50 degree and a 56 degree. I can't wait for the weekend now. One thing was odd though. They came with different grips on them. One had rubber and the other had cord.


DENNIS: GOOD FOR YOU,Now straighten me out my pitching wedge is 45 dgr. sand wedge 55dgr so to complete the arsenal I'm going 52 and 58.
my golf buddies feel 60 is too hard to hit. what do you think. Every time I think I know what I want more infomation gets me thinking again. Sometimes thinking is dangerous when swinging.

Bob


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## Surtees

broken tee said:


> DENNIS: GOOD FOR YOU,Now straighten me out my pitching wedge is 45 dgr. sand wedge 55dgr so to complete the arsenal I'm going 52 and 58.
> my golf buddies feel 60 is too hard to hit. what do you think. Every time I think I know what I want more infomation gets me thinking again. Sometimes thinking is dangerous when swinging.
> 
> Bob


I think sometime it maybe dangerous when you think in general Bob:cheeky4:. I've also heard that the 60 can be a bit hard to hit I was thinking of getting a 54 or 56 dgr one.


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## 373

I agree about the lob wedges in that they were difficult to judge distance for me. I didn't practice enough to learn, but what bothered me was that I couldn't make a full swing and ever get a reasonable idea of how far I could hit the silly things. With my most recent 58 degree Callaway wedge, I could get between 50-70 yards with no appreciable feel for why I had hit it so poorly or so much better that it fell short or flew over my target. In short, I have tried both 60 degree and then 58 degree wedges, thinking the latter might let me put the effort into a swing that I THINK should be enough, only to fail miserably most of the time.

The sand wedge I have used for a few years now was 54 degrees, so my hope is that the 56 degree wedge will serve double duty in the sand and as somewhat of a lob wedge in a few situations every round where I wish I had one. For some reason, I have always been able to hit an open faced cut shot pretty well. A combination of that with the 56 degrees ought to equal something close to lob wedge characteristics, as long as I don't try to hit the ball a long way.

So, my wedge lineup is now a 46 degree PW, a 50 degree Gap and a 56 degree SW. I'm not concerned about the 6 degree difference between the gap and sand wedges.


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## broken tee

Surtees said:


> I think sometime it maybe dangerous when you think in general Bob:cheeky4:.
> its the squirrel in the wheel,it just slows down too often


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## Surtees

Back on topic again I was just surfing around the web and found a 64 dgr wedge and was wondering if anyone here used one? if so what type of range does it have?


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## TGOH

I've used a 64. One of my golf coaches has one that he rotates in and out of his bag. I'm not a big hitter, so I can only get about 40 yards from it. However, it makes opening up the face for flop shots, and sitting the ball down on a dime quite a bit easier than with a 56.


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## 373

One of the guys I play with has a 64 degree wedge. He has a really easy, smooth swing and never tries to hit it over about 30 yards, so he only uses it around the green, with a full swing, with his intention being only to get ON the green. I think that club is crazy, but for him it works.

I just finished regripping my new irons and wedges. I've used Golf Pride Tour Wrap Midsize grips since forever and every time I put on a new set, I feel so good, like I've just gotten a new toy. They are just about dry and when they are, I'm taking the 56 degree Vokey over to the school field so I can get a feel for it.


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## 373

The Vokey Tour models were super. I had 2 sand shots that I didn't hit particularly well, but using the 56 degree wedge around the green got me 5 up & downs with only 1 mess. The gap wedge worked pretty well, certainly felt good, but I need to learn how long I can hit it.


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## Surtees

sounds like a nice buy and that you'll be spending sometime do at the range to learn your distances with it.


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## 373

Yeah, I'm happy with the wedges. I think what I may do with the gap wedge is not bang it on the range, but go to the course late in the afternoon and use the GPS in the cart to tell me when I'm a certain distance away, then see if I can figure out how far I hit it. I also have a school field two houses away, so I could also measure my way across a piece of the field and see what it takes. I'd just rather hit my shag bag, which has more consistent balls in it, than some cheap range balls.


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## Surtees

Thats prob a better idea that way you know the balls that your hitting and you should get a good feel for your distance with it.


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## cbwheeler

I'd be LOST without my 60. Well I'd make a 56 work if I had to, but the courses I play have some disgusting rough around the greens and there are also a lot of short wedges in so a 60 degree wedge comes in very handy. I like the versatility of it. I like having 4 wedges in my bag for any situation, but the 60 is by far the most widely used of the 4.


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## Surtees

cbwheeler said:


> I'd be LOST without my 60. Well I'd make a 56 work if I had to, but the courses I play have some disgusting rough around the greens and there are also a lot of short wedges in so a 60 degree wedge comes in very handy. I like the versatility of it. I like having 4 wedges in my bag for any situation, but the 60 is by far the most widely used of the 4.



Four wedgees in you bag what are they? Sorry but what else do you carry in your bag? 4 wedges a driver, 3/5 wood 3-8 iron and a putter?


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## TGOH

I'm gonna guess pitching, gap, sand, and lob.


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## broken tee

I think we are missing the point of wedges, some of us me included, we need to get the loft of the wedge. this may be incorrect but you should get my drift. I believe the pitching wedge is 48, Sand wedge is 55 if this is the case then knowing my swing I would fill the gap with a 52 and if I just wanted to pop the ball up and a short distance may be, just maybe a 60, its what I do best in the trap up , down swear:laugh:


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## broken tee

broken tee said:


> I think we are missing the point of wedges, some of us me included, we need to get the loft of the wedge. this may be incorrect but you should get my drift. I believe the pitching wedge is 48, Sand wedge is 55 if this is the case then knowing my swing I would fill the gap with a 52 and if I just wanted to pop the ball up and a short distance may be, just maybe a 60, its what I do best in the trap up , down swear:laugh:


Well, I did it I bought two wedges both Adams a 52 and a 60. expect them in 5 days. It should be fun learning how to use them correctly.


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## Surtees

broken tee said:


> Well, I did it I bought two wedges both Adams a 52 and a 60. expect them in 5 days. It should be fun learning how to use them correctly.



Good to hear Bob let us all know how you go with them and I agree with you about the point of wedgees for the loft and to pop it up and drop it on the green.


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## Malzahn

*Wedge question*

First, let me say I'm new to posting in the forum. I've read for a while, but finally registered.

Now, to my question. I've been golfing for less than 12 months, so I'm still learning. (be gentle) My question is, how many wedges should be in my bag? I have a pw, sw, and a lob wedge that was given to me. A friend of mine said I needed a gap wedge also. Do you guys carry 4 wedges? If not, which ones do you leave out?

Thanks in advance. Love the forum.


-Malzahn


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## BrianMcG

Why do you need so many wedges?

Many years ago most golf sets only had one wedge, a pitching wedge. However this pitching wedge had what would be the equivalent loft of a gap or sandwedge of today. 

Then comes along a gentleman by the name a Gene Sarazen who developed a special wedge that had a lot of "bounce". You can see bounce in a sand wedge buy looking at the sole of the club from the toe. You will see that the leading edge of the club is higher than the trailing edge. This angle helps the wedge glide through the sand without digging in. 

Everyone in the golf world was fat and happy getting rid of their one irons that they couldn't hit anyway and adding the trusty sand wedge. In order to make the sand wedge fit better in the set, they then took some loft off the pitching wedge to basically make it a 10 iron, but they kept calling it a pitching wedge.

Well, things were great for nearly 50 years until golf manufactures decided to pull the wool over everyones eyes and started offering de-lofted irons, claiming that you can hit the ball further with their clubs. Well, when you offer a set that has an 8 iron with the loft of a traditional 6 iron, you should be able to hit it further.

This created a bit of a problem, Now nobody can hit the two or three irons anymore and everyone was left with a pitching wedge that they would hit 150yds (your results may vary). So now everyone needed a "wedge" to fill the gap between their pitching wedges and their sand wedges. 

Now companies are laughing all the way to the bank, as they now are having everyone buy these "gap" wedges, and getting rid of their 2 and 3 irons that have lofts that even tour pros can't hit. You then get to replace your 2 and 3 irons with what is called a "hybrid". Companies came out with hybrids simply because they could not get tour pros to hit a seven wood. Driver, three wood, and maybe a four or five wood, but not a seven wood. But with a hybrid you could stamp a "1" on it and a tour pro will play it, and people will clamour out and buy it because its the "new" thing.

So, do you NEED a gap wedge? No not really. If you realy feel that you are always in between your SW and PW and you can't figure out how to hit a soft PW or a hard SW then go ahead and get one. But it is really not needed.

What does someone really need in a set? Well to answer than question I will have to tell a little story from when I played golf in college. One day my coach decided that we would be playing our practice rounds with the following clubs : 3 wood, 4,6,8 irons a sand wedge and a putter. The funny thing was, just about everyone on the team improved their average by a stroke with this limited set. Our coach said it was because it made us think a little more on the course and we were in play more often because we could only drive with our three wood.

Hope this helps.


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## stevel1017

I carry 4 wedges, my pitch, gap (52 deg) sand (56 deg) and a 58 deg for shots over bunkers that have to stop quicker (and those over the small tree straight up in the air shots). The 58 is more of a specialty club, chips are usually with the pitch or gap


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## Fourputt

Malzahn said:


> First, let me say I'm new to posting in the forum. I've read for a while, but finally registered.
> 
> Now, to my question. I've been golfing for less than 12 months, so I'm still learning. (be gentle) My question is, how many wedges should be in my bag? I have a pw, sw, and a lob wedge that was given to me. A friend of mine said I needed a gap wedge also. Do you guys carry 4 wedges? If not, which ones do you leave out?
> 
> Thanks in advance. Love the forum.
> 
> 
> -Malzahn


Best advice to a new player.... Carry a pitching wedge and a sand wedge and learn to use them... get comfortable with what you can do with them, then make a decision on whether you need to add more, and which ones you might need. 2 wedges are plenty for a beginner. 

The guys I know who are really good with their wedges, usually started with just one or two, learned the fundamentals, then only added to or changed the mix when they realized a NEED for it. The real key is to practice and get reasonably good with one or two at most, then you will have the experience to make a better judgment for what YOU need. I've seen more beginners short games ruined by trying to play a 60° LW before they really know what it's for, or what techniques are needed to be successful with it. They get frustrated by trying to use it in situations where they shouldn't because they see Phil or Tiger doing it, never realizing that this is very advanced stuff. And the best use for gap wedge is for bridging the full shot gap between the PW and SW, most useful once a player can hit his clubs about the same distance every time. Most beginners just add confusion when they start trying to use 3 or 4 different clubs for chipping and pitching too soon. Short game success is all about confidence, and being uncertain or indecisive is a sure path to a weak shot. Fewer club choices makes for easier decisions and more confident swings.

My original set didn't even have a PW. My first pitching was done with 9I. Then I got a full set and learned to use a PW and an 8I for chipping and other greenside shots. It was about 10 years after that, when I replaced that first full set that I finally bought a SW to go with the new clubs and learned to play bunker shots properly. I also learned that the SW is a valuable club to have even when not used for bunker shots. I don't recommend waiting that long to get the SW because it is a necessary tool, but I would leave the LW at home until you feel really good about your short game and can really begin to see where the LW should properly be used. A 56° SW can do most of what people try to use a LW can for, and it's more dependable for getting you out of the sand. Right now, after a lot of changing and experimenting, I'm only carrying 2 wedges.... the 45° PW that came with my set of Cobras, and a 56° Cleveland SW.

Summary... I'd keep the PW, get a 56° SW with about 12°-14° of bounce and learn to use both of them. If necessary take some short game lessons to help you develop good fundamentals. Then, and only then, can you decide what else your short game might need based on the YOUR game and the type of courses you play most often. Don't let anyone else talk you into buying this or that just because it works for them (or they think it does  ) ... all that does is get expensive.


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## TGOH

I'd definitely agree with Rick here. 

I carry four wedges in my bag, but my all purpose wedge is my sand wedge. I stared out with only a pitching wedge and a sand wedge. After I got a little bit more consistent, I bought a 60*. Then when I realized I had a yardage gap in between my pitching and sand wedges, I bought a gap wedge.

But, if you're curious, here's the rundown on how I use each of my wedges. My 50* gap wedge I use for full swings that are in between my sand wedge and pitching wedge. I use my 60* for some flop shots, or situations where I don't want the bounce of the sand wedge. Otherwise, I can use my sand wedge for just about anything. The sand wedge is gonna be one of your more versatile clubs, and IMO, just about the most valuable, behind, of course, your flat stick. 

Glad to see that people are registering after lurking. Good luck.


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## Surtees

Rick is on the money for me too, get a sound short game with a pw and a sand then fill the gaps once you know how to use them correctly


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## broken tee

I agree with Rick learn the two first. I just got a gap 52 and lob 60. I figure its going to take some practice before I use them on the course, so until then I'm using the pitching and sand wedge.


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## Surtees

broken tee said:


> I agree with Rick learn the two first. I just got a gap 52 and lob 60. I figure its going to take some practice before I use them on the course, so until then I'm using the pitching and sand wedge.



And we all know that your sand wedge gets a lot of use doesn't it Bob when your on the course you spend half your time at the beach :cheeky4:.


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## broken tee

Surtees said:


> And we all know that your sand wedge gets a lot of use doesn't it Bob when your on the course you spend half your time at the beach :cheeky4:.


Sun tan lotion and the snorkel in my bag. the geese get mad too when your hitting out of the pond.


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## Surtees

broken tee said:


> Sun tan lotion and the snorkel in my bag. the geese get mad too when your hitting out of the pond.


Just remember that you have a club and if the geese get in the way when your half through your swingits not your fault.


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## Chri5_Handi

cbwheeler said:


> Also, there are different uses for each wedge. For instance, a gap wedge is for lower running chip shots, a sand wedge is for escaping from the sand (because of how much bounce it has), and a lob wedge is good for tricky situations like pitching and chipping to a hole that is cut close to the edge, landing a ball softly, or hacking out of thick rough.
> 
> The difference in wedges isn't about ball flight, it's about ball spin. One wedge can look the same as another and perform completely differently. You have to get right down to microscopic levels and see how the grooves are manufactured. Titleist Vokey wedges and TaylorMade RAC wedges have machine milled grooves that have really amazing staying power, which hold up over time. They also spin the living crap out of the ball because they have really high friction faces Friction is what generates spin in a wedge. And spin is exactly what you want in a wedge.
> 
> A knockoff wedge is cheaply made and is going to have a bunch of imperfections in the grooves, which causes erratic spin. Most of these cheaply made wedges also have no friction at all on the face. If you can run your finger across the face of the club without it feeling a little rough, it isn't going to get a lot of spin on the ball.
> 
> To really accel at the short game, you need good wedges that can channel away tough grass and get some good spin on the ball. Otherwise you are just tossing bullets at the green that will roll off the other side.
> 
> DO NOT go cheap on wedges.


if your trying to sell your book...why post it all here? j/k


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## Jeronimo

http://www.golfforum.com/golf-tips/4869-wedge-question.html#post23921

this threads have been merged.


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## broken tee

Chri5_Handi said:


> if your trying to sell your book...why post it all here? j/k


For those that want to improve their game, the love of the sport and his input is valued


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## Surtees

broken tee said:


> For those that want to improve their game, the love of the sport and his input is valued


Yes CB please keep up your imput your knowledge is very welcome.


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## broken tee

*Fyi*

Just thought I'd reopen this discussion, because I'm quite pleased with my short game. I bought a lob 60 and a gap 52 used them this morning and I was dropping the ball next the hole. the lob wedge made a big difference for me coming out of the sand. I did have problems with thick grass found the sand wedge better than the gap wedge. All in all very usefull for me. :thumbsup:


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## Trigger

The 60 degree wedge is a great tool. It is one of the most used clubs in my bag. It does take a while to become comfortable with it, but once you get used to it, you will find yourself grabbing it for all types of shots. It is definitely a "feel" club. Although I carry 4 wedges(TM RAC OS PW, TM RAC 52, TM RAC 56), my rusty old Cleveland 588 60Degree is the most used.
I rarely use it out of the sand, unless it is a deep pot bunker, but for everything 75 yards and in, the 60 is almost always in my hands.


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## broken tee

Trigger said:


> The 60 degree wedge is a great tool. It is one of the most used clubs in my bag. It does take a while to become comfortable with it, but once you get used to it, you will find yourself grabbing it for all types of shots. It is definitely a "feel" club. Although I carry 4 wedges(TM RAC OS PW, TM RAC 52, TM RAC 56), my rusty old Cleveland 588 60Degree is the most used.
> I rarely use it out of the sand, unless it is a deep pot bunker, but for everything 75 yards and in, the 60 is almost always in my hands.


Trevor: Here in Utah we don't have sand, its friggin cement, so you can't use the sand wedge like you should. With the lob wedge I'm able to get under the ball and out of the sand or what ever its called, It may not be pretty but it works for me.


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## Trigger

broken tee said:


> Trevor: Here in Utah we don't have sand, its friggin cement, so you can't use the sand wedge like you should. With the lob wedge I'm able to get under the ball and out of the sand or what ever its called, It may not be pretty but it works for me.


I imagine that's tricky. How does that work exactly? Do they just take chunks of the salt flats and put them in the bunkers, or do they put sod in the salt flats?
It's probably alot like the golf here in Afghanistan: you are either in a sand trap or a mountain hazard...


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## broken tee

Trigger said:


> I imagine that's tricky. How does that work exactly? Do they just take chunks of the salt flats and put them in the bunkers, or do they put sod in the salt flats?
> It's probably alot like the golf here in Afghanistan: you are either in a sand trap or a mountain hazard...


 unlike your golf course there the hazards here don't hide, so I'd say yours are trickier. so take that 50 cal wedge or mark 19 wedge
and show achmehd the power of good course management


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## Surtees

broken tee said:


> unlike your golf course there the hazards here don't hide, so I'd say yours are trickier. so take that 50 cal wedge or mark 19 wedge
> and show achmehd the power of good course management



I'm with Bob I think that I'll take a rock hard sand hazard over triggers postion on the golf course. I might have the rest of getting hit by a miss hit but that lots better then the risk of being shot at have fun and keep safe.


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## bill

This thread has been very informative as I am looking at purchasing 1-2new wedges. I was thinking about the Cleveland 56 degree and 60 degree, but after reading this I think I will wait on purchasing the 60degree. 

With new information comes some questions. 

After reading it sounds like the 56 degree would be the one wedge to have in your bag. Here is what I am looking for. A wedge to use from 100 yards out and one around the green and sand areas. What wedge(s) would you all recommmend?

Also please explain the 12 degree and 14 degree bounce. I noticed this on the Cleveland wedges, but didn't know what it meant. Probably a stupid question, but I am here for learning more and improving my game.


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## stevel1017

as far as what is bounce, see here
Golf Wedge Bounce | The Bounce Angle Of Your Wedges

Now, I don't know what your wedge set up is, but I recommend a 52 degree wedge (gap) and the 56 degree. the gap fills the gap between the 56 and your pitching wedge (hence the name)


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## broken tee

stevel1017 said:


> as far as what is bounce, see here
> Golf Wedge Bounce | The Bounce Angle Of Your Wedges
> 
> Now, I don't know what your wedge set up is, but I recommend a 52 degree wedge (gap) and the 56 degree. the gap fills the gap between the 56 and your pitching wedge (hence the name)


Steve: This is an interesting post. When I ordered my lob and gap wedges I never concidered bounce just distance and the variety of ways that I could use them and they have paid off for me.


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## stevel1017

I got my 52 with a small amount of bounce, and my 56 has more, this way i can chip off different lies


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## broken tee

stevel1017 said:


> I got my 52 with a small amount of bounce, and my 56 has more, this way i can chip off different lies


Maybe its me, but I do have difficulty with thick grass on an elevated green. I can't get through with lob so I have to open the face of the sand wedge to pop the ball on the green.
BTW is the bounce marked on the club?:dunno:


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## stevel1017

when you open the club face you in effect increase the bounce, which is why it gets through the high grass easier
and no the bounce usually is not marked on the club


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## broken tee

stevel1017 said:


> when you open the club face you in effect increase the bounce, which is why it gets through the high grass easier
> and no the bounce usually is not marked on the club


I thougt may be it was clud head weight


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## Trigger

Occasionally the bounce will be marked, but not always. Check the hosel, that is the most likely spot.


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