# Change of Stroke Definition



## Fourputt (Nov 18, 2006)

The announcement was made today by the USGA and the R & A that effectively bans the belly and broomstick putters. Although the rule change does not actually ban any sort of equipment, as of 2016 you will no longer be allowed to intentionally anchor any part of a club to any part of your body except your hands and arms. 

That means that Kuchar's method of clamping to his forearm will still be allowed, but strokes with the belly putter pivoted on the gut and the broomstick on the chest no longer will no longer be legal.


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## broken tee (Jan 13, 2008)

Fourputt said:


> The announcement was made today by the USGA and the R & A that effectively bans the belly and broomstick putters. Although the rule change does not actually ban any sort of equipment, as of 2016 you will no longer be allowed to intentionally anchor any part of a club to any part of your body except your hands and arms.
> 
> That means that Kuchar's method of clamping to his forearm will still be allowed, but strokes with the belly putter pivoted on the gut and the broomstick on the chest no longer will no longer be legal.


I have no problem with this change on the competitive side of golf, amateur or professional. Knowing how you respect the rules what would you say to someone in general play using the belly putter. Just for discussion


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## Cajun (Jan 17, 2010)

I think it's a good change.


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## broken tee (Jan 13, 2008)

Cajun said:


> I think it's a good change.


I agree, so I ask the same question to you as I did to fourputt.


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## Fourputt (Nov 18, 2006)

broken tee said:


> I have no problem with this change on the competitive side of golf, amateur or professional. Knowing how you respect the rules what would you say to someone in general play using the belly putter. Just for discussion


When it become disallowed in 2016, then I'll feel the same as I would for any rules breach. Until then it's legal to use, so if that's your thing, then go for it. I wouldn't touch one, but then I've thought that this change should be be made for 20 years.


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## broken tee (Jan 13, 2008)

Fourputt said:


> When it become disallowed in 2016, then I'll feel the same as I would for any rules breach. Until then it's legal to use, so if that's your thing, then go for it. I wouldn't touch one, but then I've thought that this change should be be made for 20 years.


I've never liked the belly putter/broom stick and like you I always thought it gave a player an unfair advantage.


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## Fourputt (Nov 18, 2006)

For me, it's never been a case of advantage, and it can't really be unfair since it was a technique which was available to anyone. However, it simply goes against all tradition in the way that the club is intended to be used, and for that reason I have never liked it. 

I do agree that for those who aren't bothered by looking weird using one that it does make the putting stroke simpler with fewer moving parts. It doesn't help with reading greens or judging the speed, but it does remove one variable in the putting stroke, making it easier to draw the putter back and stroke it through the ball with less potential to wobble. 

For now it's still a "proposed" change, but I hope that it becomes fact when the next Rules revision comes out in 2016.


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## broken tee (Jan 13, 2008)

Fourputt said:


> For me, it's never been a case of advantage, and it can't really be unfair since it was a technique which was available to anyone. However, it simply goes against all tradition in the way that the club is intended to be used, and for that reason I have never liked it.
> 
> I do agree that for those who aren't bothered by looking weird using one that it does make the putting stroke simpler with fewer moving parts. It doesn't help with reading greens or judging the speed, but it does remove one variable in the putting stroke, making it easier to draw the putter back and stroke it through the ball with less potential to wobble.
> 
> For now it's still a "proposed" change, but I hope that it becomes fact when the next Rules revision comes out in 2016.


This point in green is what I mean by an unfair advantage, and I've caught myself wobble during the stroke, then I speak in a language unsuitable for children


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## Cajun (Jan 17, 2010)

broken tee said:


> I agree, so I ask the same question to you as I did to fourputt.


I'd make fun of em till they put their broomstick back in the bag. :cheeky4:


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## broken tee (Jan 13, 2008)

Cajun said:


> I'd make fun of em till they put their broomstick back in the bag. :cheeky4:


:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: that is good


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## Fourputt (Nov 18, 2006)

Cajun said:


> I'd make fun of em till they put their broomstick back in the bag. :cheeky4:


You can be my partner anytime. :thumbsup:



broken tee said:


> This point in green is what I mean by an unfair advantage, and I've caught myself wobble during the stroke, then I speak in a language unsuitable for children


But it's only unfair if they can use it and you can't. It's available to everyone, so by definition it can't be unfair. However, for those who choose to use it, it has the potential to be an advantage. Only potential, as I feel that I'm at least as good a putter as anyone I've ever seen with one, although I haven't seen very many use a long putter. One of the pros at my home course used one, and I was as good a putter as he was. If I only had a full swing to go with it. :laugh:


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## broken tee (Jan 13, 2008)

Fourputt said:


> You can be my partner anytime. :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> 
> But it's only unfair if they can use it and you can't. It's available to everyone, so by definition it can't be unfair. However, for those who choose to use it, it has the potential to be an advantage. Only potential, as I feel that I'm at least as good a putter as anyone I've ever seen with one, although I haven't seen very many use a long putter. One of the pros at my home course used one, and I was as good a putter as he was. If I only had a full swing to go with it. :laugh:


I hear ya on that one


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## 373 (Jun 9, 2006)

When I watched the press conference, my initial reaction was, they really got this right.

Since then, I've watched so much television about it that I now wonder if there couldn't have been a little more leeway. The most interesting question I heard asked was whether it would later be made legal for the senior tours.

Personally, I feel a lot of people will simply ignore the new rule. If they only play golf for fun and if they don't even have a little wager on the game, they're going to feel like it makes no difference. I'm guessing they'd rather enjoy themselves and if putting a little better because they use a now prohibited putting style, they are going to choose to have fun.


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## Fourputt (Nov 18, 2006)

DennisM said:


> When I watched the press conference, my initial reaction was, they really got this right.
> 
> Since then, I've watched so much television about it that I now wonder if there couldn't have been a little more leeway. The most interesting question I heard asked was whether it would later be made legal for the senior tours.
> 
> Personally, I feel a lot of people will simply ignore the new rule. If they only play golf for fun and if they don't even have a little wager on the game, they're going to feel like it makes no difference. I'm guessing they'd rather enjoy themselves and if putting a little better because they use a now prohibited putting style, they are going to choose to have fun.


Those people were most likely ignoring the rules before this ruling, so why change? Players who do believe in playing by the rules will make the change. 

I also don't see a special consideration for the senior tour either. The PGA Tour and the Champions Tour both play by the Rules of Golf. There is nothing written into the rules that allows them to ignore such a rule. What constitutes a stroke is such a basic part of the game that I can't see any leeway for such condition for their competitions. They didn't make any allowance for Snead's croquet stroke, and they won't weaken this one either.


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## 373 (Jun 9, 2006)

You may be right about the senior tour into the future, but I think it's meant so much more to prolonging senior games that it will have a more wide ranging effect there.

As for whether people who ignore the rule and keep using long putters ignore other rules, I won't necessarily disagree with you, but I think you sound sort of hard edged there. There is such a small part of us who play in tournaments. The vast majority of golfers only play for fun. If golf stops being fun because they suffer the yips with a short putter, are we suggesting they give up the game in frustration?

Don't misunderstand, I'm not asking there be leeway for them in any competition, whether at a club or obviously under USGA control, but I simply believe to keep enjoying the game, many people who have found a reborn life on the greens will prefer to stay with the long putter that still lets them enjoy golf.

Isn't that what it's all about to so many people who support the game?


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## 373 (Jun 9, 2006)

By the way, I thought you were coming through Miami about now. When are we supposed to get together?


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## Fourputt (Nov 18, 2006)

DennisM said:


> You may be right about the senior tour into the future, but I think it's meant so much more to prolonging senior games that it will have a more wide ranging effect there.
> 
> As for whether people who ignore the rule and keep using long putters ignore other rules, I won't necessarily disagree with you, but I think you sound sort of hard edged there. There is such a small part of us who play in tournaments. The vast majority of golfers only play for fun. If golf stops being fun because they suffer the yips with a short putter, are we suggesting they give up the game in frustration?
> 
> ...


Unless things are a lot different in your area, I just don't see it as an issue for the typical amateur. I know exactly one guy who uses a long putter, and that is the head pro at my home course in Colorado. Golf had it's biggest boom in the 80's and 90's with nobody using long putters, and I just can't see it being a factor now. In my opinion, and in my experience, putts are missed more often by misreading break and speed, not by miss hits. For that reason, most casual golfers won't improve by using the belly or the broomstick putter. 

As far as the pros are concerned, they are supposed to be the best players in the world, not just the best players who can't putt. If that's harsh, well, I guess it's just how I feel. I've hated the anchored stroke since I first saw it 20 odd years ago, and that hasn't changed.



DennisM said:


> By the way, I thought you were coming through Miami about now. When are we supposed to get together?


I don't know if it's going to happen now. We've had some unexpected expenses this year, and on a fixed income, it means cutting somewhere else. If I do make it, it won't be until February now.


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## 373 (Jun 9, 2006)

Fourputt said:


> We've had some unexpected expenses this year, and on a fixed income, it means cutting somewhere else. If I do make it, it won't be until February now.


Gotcha... Since I retired, I've learned more about living on a fixed income than I ever wanted to.

And yes, it's very different here. A lot, maybe 1/3rd of everyone I see, uses a long putter.


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